Stellaris Dev Diary #259 - It Belongs in a Mega-Art Installation!

[styroler]

Isolated Contingency Core buff seems a bit too much. I think that it would be better, if it will just add 50% or 100% to megastructure building speed.

Its literally a relic you can only get in the last 50 years of most games, and thats also after defeating the contingency. Its not overpowered, and you will never even be able to use it for more than 1 or 2 megastructures.

 

[styroler]

Definitely not a fan of the Baol changes. It was really good early-game, allowing you to fix up bad planets without spending energy terraforming them into your primary class (especially with Planetary Diversity in the mix).

Now it's a detriment. I can't imagine settling on Gunur Prime, spending two years building up my infrastructure, then locking out the build queue for five year while eating the production/upkeep penalties.

Gaia worlds are one of the most powerful planet classes in the game, being 100% habitable to all species and providing work bonuses ad happiness bonuses. They're obviously not the most ideal for every empire but if you're playing a large multispecies empire they're a must have. Yes there are some downsides to some of the ways you get them (Gaia origins arent great because of the lack of guaranteed habitable worlds and basically getting nothing else but a single Gaia world) but its absolutely beneficial to get the Baol and transform the planet into a Gaia. Your alternatives are wasting an ascension perk (which is way worse) or Gaia seeding (which is admittedly good too but takes much longer and requires a civic). Pretty much every advanced terraforming world takes some build queue time (just look at ecuminopoli). Many buildings can take up to a year to build, and this is literally the entire planet being changed into a powerful planet class so its not too long at all. And as for setting up your empire, why would you be building nonstop on any planet? Yes you construct stuff initially but then you wait until the slots fill up with workers. Besides, if you need to get something done then just move a building up in the que so it pauses the terraforming for a bit while it builds and then gets back to work. I can never think of a game where I just had to build non stop and couldn't spare 5 years to get a top tier planet for basically free. Heck just transform completely built up planets then, since like I said there's literally no downside to Gaia worlds so it doesn't matter when it becomes one since you will eventually want all your worlds to be them (unless you're also building Ecuminopoli). Its not going to mess up your infastructure, since theres no difference between a Gaia and the base world besides the fact that its an upgrade.

 

[klopkr]

I was today years old when I learned of the existence of the the "crystaline empire". I didn't know that was a thing either. Guess that just proves your point.

I think the only reason anyone knows is because people looking into the game files.

I would challenge anyone to prove they've ever seen this faction on a non tampered ironman save. I just don't believe it.

 

[Nefezer]

I also want to second (or third?) the notion of letting us kinda choose which precursor we get. because in the thousand hours I've played this game. I've gotten Irassians twice, Zroni and Cybrex once. Every other time it's the damn Yuht or First League. Never gotten the others.

In case you are interested in doing some tests:
File "...\Stellaris\common\precursor_civilizations\00_precursor_civilizations.txt"

precursor_1 = {
    size = 0

}

precursor_2 = {
    size = 0

}

precursor_3 = {
    size = 0

}

precursor_4 = {
    size = 0

}

precursor_5 = {
    size = 9999

}

precursor_baol_1 = {
    size = 0

    possible = {
        has_ancrel = yes
    }
}

precursor_zroni_1 = {
    size = 0

    possible = {
        has_ancrel = yes
    }
}

# https://www.reddit.com/r/Stellaris/comments/dl6llq/psa_how_to_easily_choose_your_precursor_even_in/
# console command > debugtooltip
# Once in game, on Day 1 you can mouse around and look at system tags, including the precursor tags that determine which precursor(s) can spawn in those systems.
# The tags are:
# precursor_1    Vultaum
# precursor_2    Yuht
# precursor_3    First League
# precursor_4    Irassians
# precursor_5    Cybrex
# precursor_baol_1    Baol
# precursor_zroni_1    Zroni

By the way, it is worrying that the forum code editor does not implement the scripting language of Paradox games.

The only thing that is worth something is the ringworld of the Cybrex ... but my opinion is biased since I always play with an empire of assimilating machines.

 

[Ferrus Animus]

But also to address the main point here. While I like the idea of content that has rare chances of happening, I still want it to Effing happen at some point before I die of old age.

I would love for the devs to explain why content virtually no one will ever experience without cheating is something they've spent time developing. When the chance to happen is this low, no one cares anymore. It's like playing the lottery. Most people don't even bother because they know their not gonna win.

Some numbers seems more reasonable when you plug them into multiplayer (which is where I think some of the idea of the devs balancing around multiplayer comes from).
0.5% chance for the Galatron timey 6 reliquaries is low and means it takes on average 200 reliquares / 6 per game = 33.33... games to get it once.
Now assume 10 players in MP and it is 10x6x0.5 = on average 3.33.. games to see it opened. Whic is not a bad average for something that can become the focus of galactic warfare.

And the crystallines are simply a gimmick. Like we have other stupidly rare things in the game, though I assume few people will paly the on average 100 games as void dwellers.
There is the question why time is spent on this, but more in the context of the general huge need for more generic events this game needs.

Gaia worlds are one of the most powerful planet classes in the game, being 100% habitable to all species and providing work bonuses ad happiness bonuses.

Most powerful, but relatively insignificant.
Habitability is nbot much of an issuie most of the time, and when it is you can colonize other planet types, or builf any of the special worlds.
The productiion and happiunbess is nice, but a very small part of overall output.
The result is that gaias are best, but not good. And every cost is an opportunity cost. 5 years of building nothing is not a big opportunity cost after a while, but it is a big one early in a colonies life, when the gaia transformation granted by the relic would matter the most. And that's the issue.
If you want every world to be gaia you need the AP or or civic anyway, so the baol relic is not a replacement of these unless you get it early and stay relatively modest in size. And for grabbing a bad planet and making it good (whish was the main use of the relic so far), well, that's when the 5 year timer hurts and that's what makes the relic a bit of a detriment right now. It loses its niche with that change.

 

[Nefezer]

... that is one of the problems, that many players like me, do not prefer a Precursor for their relic but for their world of origin ...

 

[styroler]

The result is that gaias are best, but not good. And every cost is an opportunity cost. 5 years of building nothing is not a big opportunity cost after a while, but it is a big one early in a colonies life, when the gaia transformation granted by the relic would matter the most.

Again, I already addressed this. If you need to build something while turning into a Gaia world, just place the building you need into the que and move it up the list. You can do this with any building or project. Stellaris is not a game where it is normal to be utilizing the que at all times. In fact, you are rewarded for overbuilding significantly as high amounts of open jobs and housing is a major factor of increasing immigration, so just build this first and then you have all the time in the world to wait for a Gaia world. There should be no opportunity cost lost, just time spent. If 5 years is really cutting into your early colony strategy that much, you're not planning very well.

 

[Solid_Son]

Just one question. Why we still does not have a relic for destroying The Grey Tempest?

 

[GhostDanny]

Just one question. Why we still does not have a relic for destroying The Grey Tempest?

Your reward is all the planets you can terraform in the L-CLuster!

 

[Ferrus Animus]

Again, I already addressed this. If you need to build something while turning into a Gaia world, just place the building you need into the que and move it up the list. You can do this with any building or project. Stellaris is not a game where it is normal to be utilizing the que at all times. In fact, you are rewarded for overbuilding significantly as high amounts of open jobs and housing is a major factor of increasing immigration, so just build this first and then you have all the time in the world to wait for a Gaia world. There should be no opportunity cost lost, just time spent. If 5 years is really cutting into your early colony strategy that much, you're not planning very well.

But that means delaying the gaia process until the essentials are built, something that for example you don't want to do with a planet like Grunur Prime, because it has such bad habitability.

 

[styroler]

But that means delaying the gaia process until the essentiuals are built, something that for example you don't want to do with a planet liek Grunur Prime, because it has such bad habitability.

Grunur prime is intentially a tombworld. Its meant to be difficult to set up on purpose. The game shouldn't suddenly reward you by turning the worst planet class into one of the best ones. The cybrex homeworld is also not immedietly colonizable the moment you encounter it. Grunur prime is a tombworld because unless you have a special tombworld modifier youre not supposed to be able to colonize it without advanced technology. Go use your new toy on some normal colonies first.

 

[Pocket Nerd]

Absolutely love it. I feel like once this goes live, I'll never again look at a new artifact and think "Ho-hum, well that's not very interesting or useful."

 

[HFY]

Grunur prime is intentially a tombworld. Its meant to be difficult to set up on purpose. The game shouldn't suddenly reward you by turning the worst planet class into one of the best ones.

Yes, it should. That's exactly what the artifact did and still does.

Right now you're still incentivized to colonize Grunur Prime it's just that you'll have to do a meta build around 0-habitability cheese (clerks & soldiers & robots in productive jobs) so you can get some value from it during the Gaia-forming process.


@PDS_Iggy - my suggestion for the Baol artifact would be to have it cost more every activation. Start cheap (1k Unity) and increase the Unity cost such that after 10 worlds or so it's not a great value. (That's 100 years of cooldown, so solidly mid-game by that point.)

This increase would be instead of the 5 year build block.

Players will still get a lot of value from the artifact, but it will become more of a late-game Unity sink.

Nice contrast to the Cybrex artifact which increases in value for a fixed activation cost.

 

[Ferrus Animus]

Grunur prime is intentially a tombworld. Its meant to be difficult to set up on purpose. The game shouldn't suddenly reward you by turning the worst planet class into one of the best ones. The cybrex homeworld is also not immedietly colonizable the moment you encounter it. Grunur prime is a tombworld because unless you have a special tombworld modifier youre not supposed to be able to colonize it without advanced technology. Go use your new toy on some normal colonies first.

You literally get a relic to make it into a gaia world the moment the colony is finished as part of the precursor chain right there.
Grunur Prime is a Tomb world to show you what your new relic can do and I'd say it is literally placed there so you can use your new relic right away and gain a bigger benefit.

How don't you see that?

 

[Dr. B]

You are not forced to use that bombardment stance, you can select whatever you want.

Hey, nice work on rebalancing.

However, the Javorian Pox passive bonus is quite useless for Necrophages, as you really don't want to kill your food, and already has great longevity.

I suggest that instead, you can use the pox to help in conversion by for example weakening the converted, removing the % chance to fail/escape necropurge.

 

[Numkelis]

wait_thats_illegal.gif

 

[Stellar Game]

People had a similar comment about the Blade on the discord. On the list of feedback it goes!

I respectfully disagree with this! The blade giving extra sublight speed makes it one of the best, and one I might actually use!

 

[styroler]

You literally get a relic to make it into a gaia world the moment the colony is finished as part of the precursor chain right there.
Grunur Prime is a Tomb world to show you what your new relic can do and I'd say it is literally placed there so you can use your new relic right away and gain a bigger benefit.

How don't you see that?

If the purpose of the Baol relic is to make tomb worlds instantly habitable, then surely there's no point of tomb world origin if you get it. Tomb world origin is nowhere near as good as a full Gaia world, so if you took it and got that precursor your origin is now useless. On the other hand, if you make it take 5 years, any non-tomb world species can't settle the planet until they get some of the habitability techs, since any pop would decline itself out of existence by then. The baol precursor becomes a replacement for the whole habitability system and disregards any of your origin picks, habitability traits, research, class preferences ect.

You're right about one thing. The devs did realize that this made the first world an instantly habitable world. That's the whole reason they changed it. They never intended Baol precursors to invalidate and entite part of the game. You cannot apply design goals which the devs literally told us in this dev diary was not the intention at all. You just showed how the Baol precursor is unintentionally overpowered for no reason. How don't you see that? The devs are literally telling you that. Relics are meant to be major boons which can improve your empire, they're not meant to create a whole new playstyle.

 

[HFY]

If the purpose of the Baol relic is to make tomb worlds instantly habitable, then surely there's no point of tomb world origin if you get it.

It forces a choice: make this Tomb world habitable for better long-term growth, or improve most of your population (on your capital) by +10% productivity & happiness for most of your current pops instantly.

That choice between long-term growth vs. short-term gain is an interesting choice.

I like choices.

I don't like nerfs which remove choices and add nothing.

 

[Draguss]

I would love to have the ability to turn off Head or Zarqlan passive with which it gives spiritualist attraction. It is a straight up detriment to my empire if I'm playing materialist.

I would like to echo this. If you haven't already I hope you consider taking a look at this relic and perhaps considering possible adjustments.