Stellaris Dev Diary #266 - Rise a Knight!

[styroler]

Because when one writes a story one needs to write a story i.e. it has to have a plot. And apparently whoever wrote the story decided to have it go in this direction (or was told to go there).

You could just as well ask "Why do we have to have the Worm love us, when it could instead be disgusted by us or it could be a Dog instead of a Worm". Sure it could be something else, but it would always be one thing and not any other.

The problem is that there was no need to write it in such a way to pigeonhole the player. This is on the shoulders of giants and here be dragons origin all over again. People keep complaining that the stories are so specific that you end up only ever playing the civics once. Here be dragons is somewhat better as at least the existence of an actual dragon defending the civilization can always lead to some interesting things in war and when facing an empire with that origin, but what exactly is the point of a knightly order which can only be played by toxoids? Stellaris works best when the player is left to write their own stories, and not have a specific story forced down their throat. Clone army for instance is a great origin because while there is a little bit of lore for how you became clones, its left completely up to you on what you do with it, and the future is entirely left open ended. The big difference was that that it was a good origin because honestly there was very little writing, just a thoroughly explained mechanic. No one came to play stellaris to act out a play. This is a major example of overwriting, where the players would have absolutely been fine with a simpler origin which did less but created a unique set of core mechanics.

 

[Alfray Stryke]

what exactly is the point of a knightly order which can only be played by toxoids?

There are no portrait restrictions on the origin.

 

[aadf97799c]

rejoice, for we, the knights of toxic god, will be your shield

 

[G S Palmer]

This seems cool but it's very specific. Not much room for roleplay.

 

[--Yigito123--]

This seems cool but it's very specific. Not much room for roleplay.

Yeah, I kinda wish that a more generic but weaker Knightly Order origin or civic was added alongside so that the player could make stuff like a crusader state without being locked into the whole Toxic God storyline.

 

[Ferrus Animus]

Because when one writes a story one needs to write a story i.e. it has to have a plot. And apparently whoever wrote the story decided to have it go in this direction (or was told to go there).

You could just as well ask "Why do we have to have the Worm love us, when it could instead be disgusted by us or it could be a Dog instead of a Worm". Sure it could be something else, but it would always be one thing and not any other.

That is kinda the crux of it all though.

As a game, Stellaris is an interactive experience and the interestign parts are the stories that emerge from the gameplay.
Stellaris events however have always been very linear. There is a plat that starts at a fixed point and ends at a fixed point, sometimes with a few deviations or one decision at the end.

And while that works for some parts, like archeology (aka, the story is over and done), for the the events and quest and more that are supposedly current things happening in the galaxy, that approach is very limiting. And that has been true for years.

 

[goldennick94]

Knights are cool! Hypothetical question, can your knights of the toxic god origin empire have species that have the Aquatic trait and does the habitat you start with become a flooded habitat if so?

 

[Lorenerd11]

I mean yeah I immediately agreed after reading this dev diary. This seems like a mechanic I would absolutely enjoy with many types of empires, but the specificity it has to toxoids means that its really lost alot of versatility. I kinda wish they would rewrite this whole origin to be basically the same but removing all references to toxicity, so if you want to play it as a toxoid you can, but you can also just play it as some feudal human kingdom. I want to play as Bretonia, but I dont want to play as some weird garbage Bretonia. This also just seems like the perfect origin to use if you wanted to become some galactic knightly order like the Jedi, only instead you have to play someone's weird pre-written lore instead of being to create your own story.

The knight order actually sounds like it would make more sense as a civic, perhaps a permanent one, instead of an origin.

It could perhaps still be combined with the toxic homeworld origin, but your could play as a knight order regardless of the toxic homeworld.

 

[SS Boss]

Yeah, I think they should add a generic Knight-civic without the Toxic stuff, and make it a obligatory requirement with the Toxic God origin. Or something like that.

It has so much RP-potential that would be a shame if it is locked with a very theme-specific origin.

 

[G S Palmer]

Yeah, I kinda wish that a more generic but weaker Knightly Order origin or civic was added alongside so that the player could make stuff like a crusader state without being locked into the whole Toxic God storyline.

Exactly. A Knights civic and a Toxic God origin so you can mix and match. And the Toxic God storyline could play out different depending on ethics/civics, so if you have the Knights civic, you get Knights of the Toxic God, but if you have Death Cult, you get something different.

 

[Getty]

I have no idea what happened behind the scenes, but it gives the distinct impression of two ideas mashed together. As though someone did some work on a knight origin, it didn't go anywhere, then toxoid rolls round and there's a sudden need for another origin.

Hence why some artwork looks like this:

View attachment 876581

And not like this:

View attachment 876582

From what was said on the twitch stream, it does look like you might be able to get different endings or different results depending on how you carry out your quest.

My hope is that, since the quest takes generally over 100 years, you can come out the other way with very different results. Whether be regarding the toxic god as a scientifically explainable phenomenon and as a material asset of the empire, or as fanatical plague marines and cultists in the service of the god of decay, is up to you.

Then again only like the first 2 stages out 8 stages of the quest have been shown. So we will see whether it ends up being an interesting origin and story or a lil bit too gimmicky.

 

[Harkinian's Dinner]

I don't mind the specificity of the Origin. It's fine to have some specific pre-made story origins too, not just all vague ones that allow for unlimited roleplay.

I do worry when I see my fears about the Situations system unfold though - interactive gameplay reduced to slowly-moving progress bars. Stellaris has been moving far too much in that direction in general lately, with progress bar level-up systems being shoved into all kinds of systems - see Become the Crisis, Federation EXP, Specialist Vassal EXP and so on. I think systems are more engaging when you have to take an active role in them rather than having them passively advance over time.

 

[Caraad]

I don't have much to add to everyone else's criticisms. Considering how narrative the origin is I've actually been avoiding streams to avoid spoilers. I can understand and share peoples desire for a knightly civic that isn't necessarily connected to the origin though, and that the origin is slightly oppressive story wise.

It's definitely still going to be my first playthrough though. Empire idea is basically:

Knights of the Toxic God + Mutagenic Spas + Reanimators.

When the Blight God visited our world, we, in our infantile naivete, proclaimed doom. We looked upon the ruins and saw only loss. We have learned better since then, now that we see what we have gained. What befell us was no tragedy, but an undisguised blessing! The enlightened among us analyzed, and spliced, and drank of the sacred toxins, the holy vials of mutagenic perfection, and we were blessed with growth. We took back our world, a test of our faith, and a proving ground to show we were worthy of the god's blessings! We created new technologies to rebuild what was broken and developed esoteric arts to raise what was rotted. Now, all we do is in name of the Quest: the god calls to us, its new champions, to the stars; knights of putrid potency to light our way into the void!

The journey will be long and perilous. Not all will be able to withstand the god's gifts. Many will make the ultimate sacrifice for the divine purpose. But the god is merciful. All will serve the quest, even in death.

 

[Getty]

I don't mind the specificity of the Origin. It's fine to have some specific pre-made story origins too, not just all vague ones that allow for unlimited roleplay.

I do worry when I see my fears about the Situations system unfold though - interactive gameplay reduced to slowly-moving progress bars. Stellaris has been moving far too much in that direction in general lately, with progress bar level-up systems being shoved into all kinds of systems - see Become the Crisis, Federation EXP, Specialist Vassal EXP and so on. I think systems are more engaging when you have to take an active role in them rather than having them passively advance over time.

I concur and say something I said in a dev diary a while back.

Once stellaris gets an internal politics update, it should be inspired by the internal politics of republics in Imperator Rome, with the 3 senate factions being government ideologies and the influential families maybe being internal institutions and/or races.

Also in the case of Imperial Authority (and also kinda dictatorial authority) elements from the internal politics in monarchies from that game can also be implemented.

 

[PlasticFacecrops]

The artwork for the origin seems oddly clean. Not the tile blockers, but the district icon and the artwork showing knights in fine armor while someone is knighted with an energy sword. I hope the events and quests have more toxic themed descriptions and pictures. I feel some tonal confusion between this glamourous knight aesthetic and the worship of nurgle.

It's not portrait-locked, so maybe they're keeping the art neutral to allow for a quest path where non-toxoids search for the god in order to kill him?

 

[Ajacoba]

I do worry when I see my fears about the Situations system unfold though - interactive gameplay reduced to slowly-moving progress bars. Stellaris has been moving far too much in that direction in general lately, with progress bar level-up systems being shoved into all kinds of systems - see Become the Crisis, Federation EXP, Specialist Vassal EXP and so on. I think systems are more engaging when you have to take an active role in them rather than having them passively advance over time.

Tbh I rather have an automatic story line with player decisions to be made along the way than get yet another repeat of the potential nonsense of "the next quest location is in the territory of your super strong neighbor, too bad, either you conquer it or they steal it"
because that's usually what keeps me from doing the mushroom planet questline or sometimes even the rubricator - hell, if I get especially unlucky the game generates my next grunur/zroni location in enemy territory

 

[Commander Tobe]

I haven't seen any information so far if the new Toxic species can actually settle on toxic planets. It seems obvious to me but can someone answer that? Thanks!

 

[Ajacoba]

I haven't seen any information so far if the new Toxic species can actually settle on toxic planets. It seems obvious to me but can someone answer that? Thanks!

all empires can, they just need a toxic world with the [terraforming candidate] trait and the ascension perk for terraforming toxic worlds

 

[Me_]

That is kinda the crux of it all though.

As a game, Stellaris is an interactive experience and the interestign parts are the stories that emerge from the gameplay.
Stellaris events however have always been very linear. There is a plat that starts at a fixed point and ends at a fixed point, sometimes with a few deviations or one decision at the end.

And while that works for some parts, like archeology (aka, the story is over and done), for the the events and quest and more that are supposedly current things happening in the galaxy, that approach is very limiting. And that has been true for years.

Well, yes that is how it was is and will be. So what is the point of complaining about the Knights being of a Toxic God? If the Knights were not of the Toxic God, they would be of the Yellow Shrubberry or Blue Pelican or whatever and it would be just as pre-defined.

The real problem is that the event chain here has no input from the player whatsover. Based on what gameplay has been shown, most of the events don't have any choices at all an there is zero player interaction. That's frankly horrible design. I for one will just read the event text in the Wixi and be done with this Origin.

 

[KNakamura]

They mentioned there are actual choices later, multiple times..