Stellaris Dev Diary #270 - Traditional Results (of Summer Experiments)

[NilsFabian]

This sounds really amazing. I love it.
But with this vast amount of new traditions I hope the number of total traditions will also be increased

 

[Pancakelord]

I very much like the transgenic traits mechanic. Hopefully we get a small number of traits for each base species type going forwards ( wings - avian, endothermic - reptile, squidgy body - fungoid etc), it'll both make starting species feel a bit more unique, as they'd be phenotype-locked at first, and make gene edited empires in to total chimeras (A good thing!).

To expand upon Cybernetic Ascension, we have added Cybernetic Traits that are only available to Cybernetic pops, after taking the Integrated Anatomy tradition. These traits make use of normal biological trait point and pick limits, but are not blocked by any biological traits. The traits available to cyborgs are based off of the traits available to robotic species, however they are slightly cheaper in terms of trait points while giving the pops a small amount of energy upkeep. These traits are as follows:

Are there any plans for biological (and I guess cybernetic as it uses the same system) pop modification special projects be altered at all?

So instead of locking off 1 head researcher for N months, to hit the total number of research points for the modification, are there plans to give modification-targeted pops a special "modification" living standard? Like, adding science upkeep for the duration instead?

e.g. if a genemodding/cybermodding template for 100 pops costs 10,000 engineering research, it makes the pops all upkeep 1, 2 or 3 engineering (based on a "low/mid/high" gene/cyber editing budget policy for 1x .66x .33x the time) points instead - until that 10k sum is hit collectively, at which point they all change (or some change over time)?

Perhaps a situation scoping to X species on a planet could do this, without needing to resort to pop-flags, by incrementing each month via summing the pops there x science upkeep (by reading the policy setting in the above example) - pops undergoing genemodding would have to be banned from relocating for the duration, to not screw up the maths, I guess, unless the "Max Progress" value is made dynamic [#pops of species on planet x science req. to mod 1 pop] (not sure if situations can do that).

Though, of the changes we’ve made, the ability to convert all species (including other empires’ robots) into your synths is one of my favorites.

To clarify this, as it still states "special project" in the Synth flowgraph, are we getting a new assimilation setting to auto-merge existing pops in to a synth template or ?

Also - any plans to add an archetype filter to the species list? I.e. Filter by Biological / Lithoid / Machine. There have been times in the past where something like this could have been useful. Or a dynamic filter to only show pops with X trait (e.g. type "cyborg" into a search box).

 

[WoodenP]

I very much like the transgenic traits mechanic. Hopefully we get a small number of traits for each base species type going forwards ( wings - avian, endothermic - reptile, squidgy body - fungoid etc), it'll both make starting species feel a bit more unique, as they'd be phenotype-locked at first, and make gene edited empires in to total chimeras (A good thing!).


Are there any plans for biological (and I guess cybernetic as it uses the same system) pop modification special projects be altered at all?

So instead of locking off 1 head researcher for N months, to hit the total number of research points for the modification, are there plans to give modification-targeted pops a special "modification" living standard? Like, adding science upkeep for the duration instead?

e.g. if a genemodding/cybermodding template for 100 pops costs 10,000 engineering research, it makes the pops all upkeep 1, 2 or 3 engineering (based on a "low/mid/high" gene/cyber editing budget policy for 1x .66x .33x the time) points instead - until that 10k sum is hit collectively, at which point they all change (or some change over time)?

Perhaps a situation scoping to X species on a planet could do this, without needing to resort to pop-flags, by incrementing each month via summing the pops there x science upkeep (by reading the policy setting in the above example) - pops undergoing genemodding would have to be banned from relocating for the duration, to not screw up the maths, I guess, unless the "Max Progress" value is made dynamic [#pops of species on planet x science req. to mod 1 pop] (not sure if situations can do that).


To clarify this, as it still states "special project" in the Synth flowgraph, are we getting a new assimilation setting to auto-merge existing pops in to a synth template or ?

Also - any plans to add an archetype filter to the species list? I.e. Filter by Biological / Lithoid / Machine

A Situation is basically perfect for gene modding, I bet they get around to doing it eventually. It's just that situations only just arrived and 99% of the places they'd be really well applied right now aren't hooked up yet.

 

[MordridBlack]

when the Breach the Shroud tradition is taken

I hope this tradition tree is talked about before the beta hits, and if this means what I think this means, you've effectively moved the entire Psionic Ascension Route from the Perks and put them into the Tradition Trees.


Now I can see some possible problems with locking certain Trees behind Origins [this will just further cause a meta focus on good Origins if specific Trees are locked behind them]. Locking some Trees behind other Trees might be okay, as long as it is limited and makes sense [ex: the case above, having the Shroud Tree locked behind finishing the Psionic Tree].

 

[Archael90]

WARNING: This is a long dev diary, grab a coffee and enjoy!

Hello, it’s @Alfray Stryke again! Some folks might recall that back in DD#257 that we went over some of our plans for summer experiments. In particular, I planned to look at what could be done with tradition trees and gating them behind various requirements.



Now what wasn’t mentioned is that I’ve been wanting to rework how the Ascension Paths from Utopia have worked for quite some time, with the original design framework written during Summer 2021, and this seemed like a good opportunity.

For those of you who attended PDXCON, Eladrin and I gave a presentation previewing our summer experiments which some members of our community were kind enough to share.

It turned out that these experiments proved successful internally and we’ll be moving to test them in the 3.6 “Orion” Open Beta. As a note, due to the length of this dev diary, I’ll be splitting sections into spoiler tags to make it slightly easier to read. Note that the numbers and effects of these changes may still change depending on testing results.

I’ll start by summarizing the current state of the Ascension Paths in 3.5:

Spoiler: Ascension Paths Summary

• Psionics
  • Only available to regular empires.
  • Requires Utopia
  • Two routes:
  • Mind over Matter AP followed by the Transcendence AP.
  • Teachers of the Shroud origin followed by the Transcendence AP.
• Genetics
  • Available to regular empires and hive-minds.
  • Requires Utopia
  • Engineered Evolution AP and Evolutionary Mastery AP.
• Synthetic Evolution
  • Only available to regular empires.
  • Requires Utopia
  • Flesh is Weak AP and Synthetic Evolution AP.
• Synthetic Age
  • Only available to machine intelligences.
  • Requires Synthetic Dawn
  • Synthetic Age AP.
  • This isn’t really an ascension path, but I’m including it for completion’s sake.

So we (sort of) have between three to five ascension paths depending on how you look at things (mostly if you consider being cyborgs to be on the route to becoming synthetic or a separate thing). These have now been reworked so instead of an Ascension Path having a structure of two Ascension Perks which require various technologies or special projects, they each have an Ascension Perk which gives a guaranteed research option upon selection and grants access to the Ascension Path in the form of a tradition tree. Thus, under the rework we have the following:

Spoiler: Ascension Paths Rework Summary

• Psionic Ascension
  • Only available to regular empires.
  • Requires Utopia
  • Mind over Matter AP OR Teachers of the Shroud origin.
  • Psionic Traditions.
• Genetic Ascension
  • Available to regular empires and hive-minds.
  • Requires Utopia
  • Engineered Evolution AP
  • Genetic Traditions
• Cybernetic Ascension
  • Available to regular empires, hive-minds and driven assimilators.
  • Requires Utopia
  • The Flesh is Weak AP (regular empires) OR Organo-Machine Interfacing AP (hive-minds) OR assimilate 30 pops (driven assimilators).
  • Cybernetic Traditions
• Synthetic Ascension
  • Available to regular empires and machine intelligences.
  • Requires Utopia for regular empires
  • Requires Synthetic Dawn for machine intelligences
  • Synthetic Evolution AP OR Synthetic Age AP.
  • Synthetic Traditions

Each of these tradition trees has incorporated all of the benefits of the previous Ascension Paths, with some new goodies added for those that we felt needed them. Due to how traditions within the trees are unlocked we’ve found that this leads to a more gradual route through the paths instead of saving up Ascension Perk slots and then taking an entire path while the game is paused!

As expected, all values and art shown here are not final, things can and most likely will shift about during testing.

With all that preamble out of the way, let’s dive into the Psionic Ascension Path.

View attachment 883146
View attachment 883147
We shall unlock the power within the [Root.GetSpeciesAdj] mind.

Spoiler: Psionic Ascension Flow Chart

View attachment 883148

To access this tradition tree we either need to take the Mind Over Matter AP or have the Teachers of the Shroud origin (from Overlord) and have researched Psionic Theory.

What’s remained from the previous version?

• Mind over Matter still grants Telepathy as a Research Option, requires Psionic Theory and can’t be taken as your first Ascension Perk.
• For Teachers of the Shroud empires, the path is still partially unlocked at the start of the game and to progress requires the Psionic Theory technology.

What’s changed?

• Mind over Matter has had the bulk of its boons either moved to the opener (the Latent Psionic trait) or the Psi-Corps tradition.
• Transcendence has had its boons shared between the three remaining traditions.
• The +5%/+10% Energy from jobs provided by the Latent Psionic and Psionic traits have been replaced with +5%/+10% Unity from jobs as this was more in-line with the desired focus for Psionic and particularly Spiritualist empires.
• Telepaths previously provided a planet-wide +5% Resources from Pops modifier, this has been replaced with a +5% Resources from Psionic Pops so that non-Psionic pops in your empire no longer have their performance improved by the presence of Telepaths. However, this modifier increases to +10% when the Breach the Shroud tradition is taken, meaning that the two Telepath jobs from a Psi-Corp building will provide +20% to the resource output of the planet if all pops working are Psionic. So although a Psionic empire may have fewer pops than the other Ascension Paths, those pops should be more efficient.

What’s new?

• Thought Enforcement is now a guaranteed research option, with the Psi-Corp tradition.
• The Mind Readers tradition grants a new empire edict, Sight Beyond Sight. This provides some rather nice bonuses as your navy’s navigators are supplied with an abundance of Zro.:
  • +1 Sensor range
  • -15% Hyper Drive Charge Time
  • -15% Hyper Drive Cooldown
  • -15% Jump Drive Cooldown
  • +15% Quantum Catapult Accuracy.
• The finisher for the tradition tree grants 50 edict fund and more importantly a Special Project that when completed will allow you to form a Covenant with a random Shroud Entity.

Genetic Ascension Path

In comparison, the Genetic Tradition tree is slightly simpler as the traditions themselves aren’t locked behind special projects. This is because to get the most use out of it, you’ll likely be doing a fair few special projects to modify species.

View attachment 883149
View attachment 883150
What if we could obtain genetic perfection?

Spoiler: Genetic Ascension Flow Chart

View attachment 883151

What’s changed?

• The boons from Engineered Evolution and Evolutionary Mastery have been arranged to follow a logical progression through the tradition tree, with you gradually unlocking more and more advanced species modifications.

What’s new?

• Efficient Cloning doubles the output of Clone Vats without increasing their upkeep, which should make them somewhat more competitive with empires that favour a more metallic path.
• Enhanced Expression allows you to add another trait pick on your modified species, meaning you can cram more traits onto a species.
• Completing Genetic traditions allows you to research special Transgenesis technologies. These technologies allow you to add Lithoid traits to non-Lithoids, Plantoid traits to non-Plantoids/Fungoids, and if you’ve harvested the DNA from certain Leviathans, you can splice some rather special traits into your species’ genetic code. The Leviathan traits available are:
  • Drake-Scaled (Ether Drake, Shard, Sky Dragon)
    • This trait requires that the player has harvested the genetic material from a space dragon (Ether Drake, Shard, or Sky Dragon). This is presented as an event option when the leviathan is slain.
    • Cost: 3
    • Each pop produces 0.025 monthly Alloys.
    • +50% Army Health
    • Mutually exclusive with other resource generating traits.
  • Voidling (Voidspawn)
    • Cost: 3
    • This trait requires that the player has harvested the genetic material from the Voidspawn. This is presented as an event option when the leviathan is slain.
    • Replaces all Food or Mineral upkeep with Energy Upkeep.
    • Habitability Floor on all planets of 50%.
    • Mutually exclusive with Phototrophic, Radiotrophic traits.
  • Polymelic (Tiyanki Matriarch)
    • Cost: 3
    • This trait requires that the player has harvested the genetic material from the Tiyanki Matriarch. This is presented as an event option when the leviathan is slain.
    • As budding but 0.05 assembly per pop.
• We’ve also added a few new Advanced traits that are unlocked by Genetic Creation to cover some missing bases.
  • Vat-Grown
    • Cost: 3
    • -25% Pop Growth Speed
    • +25% Pop Assembly Speed
    • -10% Housing Usage
  • Felsic
    • Requires Lithoid
    • Cost: 2
    • Minerals from Livestock and Processing: +2
  • Natural Machinist
    • Cost: 2
    • +10% Alloys from Jobs
    • +10% Consumer Goods from Jobs

Now onto Cybernetic and Synthetic Ascension. To start with, we’ve split the Synthetic path into the two paths because it felt like a better fit to be able to wholly devote your empire into embracing cybernetics without going down the mind-uploading route.

Cybernetic ascension is no longer unlocked via the robotics line of technologies, instead there are new technologies to represent basic cybernetic upgrades that your population has access to. This comes with a change to the Powered Exo-Skeletons technology as well.

Powered Exo-Skeletons Technologies/Improved Servomotors
Tier 1, Engineering - Industry
+5% Army Damage
+5% Worker/Menial Drone Output

Integrated Cybernetics/Adaptive Cybernetics
Requires: Powered Exo-Skeletons Technologies/Improved Servomotors
Tier 2, Engineering - Industry
+5% Habitability

Neuro-Quantum Links
Requires: Integrated Cybernetics Technologies
Tier 3, Physics - Computing
+5% Specialist/Complex Drone Output
This technology is not available to driven assimilators

Since Cybernetic ascension is now available to Hive-Minds and Driven Assimilators, they too get access to The Flesh is Weak, albeit with a changed name and description.

The Flesh is Weak/Organo-Machine Interfacing Ascension Perk
Available to regular empires, hive-minds and driven assimilators

• Regular Empires and Hive-Minds:
  • Requires Integrated Cybernetics Technology
• Driven Assimilators:
  • Requires: Have assimilated 30 pops.
• Regular Empires and Hive-Minds:
  • Gain Neuro-Quantum Links research option
• Driven Assimilators:
  • Gain Adaptive Cybernetics research option
• Allows taking Cybernetic Traditions.

Because Cybernetic traditions are available to multiple empire types, there’s a number of tradition swaps used here to ensure they each get something different.

View attachment 883152
View attachment 883154
Our future lies in the fusion of flesh and machine.

Spoiler: Cybernetic Ascension Flow Chart

View attachment 885115

Spoiler: Regular Cybernetic Traditions

• Opener
  • Gain access to The Flesh is Weak Special Project
• Tradition 1: Transubstantiation Synthesis
  • Requires that The Flesh is Weak Special Project has been completed.
  • Can assimilate organic species to Cyborgs (Including into/out of Hive-Minds).
• Tradition 1: Organ Harvesting (Swap for Fanatic Purifiers)
  • Requires that The Flesh is Weak Special Project has been completed.
  • Planets with ongoing purges gain +10% pop growth speed.
• Tradition 2: Metabolic Reprocessing
  • -10% Cyborg Upkeep
• Tradition 3: Integrated Anatomy
  • Allows add/remove cyborg traits (based off of robot traits) to cyborgs
• Tradition 4: Assembly Standards
  • Unlocks Assembly Standards policy, allowing roboticists to assemble cyborgs instead of robots.
• Tradition 5: Modular Cybernetics
  • -50% Modify Species special project cost
  • +1 Biological Trait Picks
• Finisher:
  • +10% cyborg output
  • +1 Biological Trait Picks

Spoiler: Hive-Mind Cybernetic Traditions

• Opener
  • Gain access to The Flesh is Weak Special Project
• Tradition 1: Transubstantiation Synthesis
  • Requires that The Flesh is Weak Special Project has been completed.
  • Can assimilate organic species to Cyborgs (Including into/out of Hive-Minds).
• Tradition 1: Organ Harvesting (Swap for Devouring Swarms/Terravores)
  • Requires that The Flesh is Weak Special Project has been completed.
  • Planets with ongoing purges gain +10% pop growth speed.
• Tradition 2: Metabolic Reprocessing
  • -10% Cyborg Upkeep
  • -10% Empire Size from Cyborgs
• Tradition 3: Integrated Anatomy
  • Allows add/remove cyborg traits (based off of robot traits) to cyborgs
• Tradition 4: Synaptic Sub-Processing
  • -50% empire size from districts.
• Tradition 5: Modular Cybernetics
  • -50% Modify Species special project cost
  • +1 Biological Trait Picks
• Finisher:
  • +10% cyborg output
  • +1 Biological Trait Picks

Spoiler: Driven Assimilator Cybernetic Traditions

• Opener
  • Assimilating Organic Pops now provides Engineering Research,
  • All resources provided from Assimilation are increased..
• Tradition 1: Inevitable Assimilation
  • Can now assimilate Hive-Minded pops.
  • +1 Pop assimilated (per planet, per year).
• Tradition 2: Metabolic Reprocessing
  • -10% Cyborg Upkeep
  • -10% Empire Size from Cyborgs
• Tradition 3: Integrated Anatomy
  • Allows add/remove cyborg traits (based off of robot traits) to cyborgs
• Tradition 4: Crucible Worlds
  • Gain access to the special Crucible World planetary designation.
  • Crucible Worlds have greatly increased pop growth, provided by Crucible Drones, but have penalties to pop upkeep and output and have restrictions on certain buildings.
• Tradition 5: Modular Cybernetics
  • -50% Modify Species special project cost
  • +1 Biological Trait Picks
• Finisher:
  • +10% cyborg output
  • +1 Biological Trait Picks

To expand upon Cybernetic Ascension, we have added Cybernetic Traits that are only available to Cybernetic pops, after taking the Integrated Anatomy tradition. These traits make use of normal biological trait point and pick limits, but are not blocked by any biological traits. The traits available to cyborgs are based off of the traits available to robotic species, however they are slightly cheaper in terms of trait points while giving the pops a small amount of energy upkeep. These traits are as follows:

Spoiler: Cybernetic Traits

Positive traits
These all increase pop upkeep by 0.5 energy/month.

• Power Drills, Cost 1, +15% minerals from jobs
• Harvesters, Cost 1, +15% food from jobs
• Superconductive, Cost 1, +15% energy from jobs
• Efficient Processors, Cost 2, +5% resources from jobs
• Logic Engines, Cost 1, +10% research from jobs
• Loyalty Circuits, Cost 1, +10% happiness
• Double-Jointed, Cost 1, -10% pop housing usage, +15% pop growth from immigration, -25% resettlement cost
• Enhanced Memory, Cost 1, +2 leader level cap,
• Durable, Cost 1, pop amenities usage -0.5
• Learning Algorithms, Cost 1, +25% leader experience, +1 leader level cap
• Streamlined Protocols, Cost 1, -10% empire size from pops
• Trading Algorithms, Cost 1, +25% trade value from jobs.

Negative traits

• Bulky, Cost -2, +10% pop housing usage, -15% pop growth from immigration, +25% resettlement cost
• High Maintenance, Cost -2, pop amenities usage +0.5
• Power Intensive, Cost -1, increases pop upkeep by 1 energy/month.
• Neural Limiters, Cost -2, -25% leader experience, -1 leader level cap
• High Bandwidth, Cost -2, +10% empire size from pops

Additionally, the Trading Algorithms trait is available to both robots and cyborgs.

Onto the path of the machine…

The first thing with this that I want to address is comparing the Synthetic Age AP with the options available to regular empires was rather damning. Only +2 trait points and -33% species modification cost left a lot to be desired for any machine intelligence. Thus one of the first things I wanted to do with this was make the Synthetic path available to machine intelligences. The APs required to access this tradition tree are

Synthetic Evolution Ascension Perk
Available to regular empires

• Requires: Droids Technology
• Gain Synthetics as a research option
• Allows taking Synthetic Traditions.

Synthetic Age Ascension Perk
Available to machine intelligences

• Requires: Machine Template System Technology
• Gain Binary Motivators as a research option
• Allows taking Synthetic Traditions.

View attachment 883157
View attachment 883158
It is the dawn of a Synthetic Age.​

Spoiler: Synthetic Ascension Flow Chart

View attachment 883159
​

​

Spoiler: Regular Synthetic Traditions

• Opener
  • Allows recruitment of robotic leaders
• Tradition 1: Maintenance Protocols
  • −10% Robot Amenities Usage
• Tradition 2: Optimization Algorithms
  • +10% Robot Output
• Tradition 3: Synthetic Age
  • Requires the Synthetics technology to be researched
  • For Non-Purifiers:
    • Grants the Synthetic Evolution Special Project
    • Can assimilate organic, robotic and machine species to Synths (after completing the special project).
  • For Fanatic Purifiers:
    • +10% Robot Assembly Speed
• Tradition 4: Prefabricated Components
  • -50% Modify Species special project cost
• Tradition 5: Solid-State Actuators
  • +2 Robot Modification Points
• Finisher:
  • +1 Trait Pick for Robots.
  • +1 Roboticist job added to capital building

Spoiler: Machine Synthetic Traditions

• Opener
  • Can assimilate robot and machine species into your primary machine species.
• Tradition 1: Maintenance Protocols
  • −10% Machine Amenities Usage
• Tradition 2: Optimization Algorithms
  • +10% Machine Output
• Tradition 3: Efficient Power Systems
  • +1 Trait pick for Machines
• Tradition 4: Prefabricated Components
  • -50% Modify Species special project cost
• Tradition 5: Solid-State Actuators
  • +2 Machine Modification Points
• Finisher:
  • Machine leaders gain the Synthetic trait.
  • +1 Replicator jobs added to capital building

Some of the changes we’ve made here could be considered fairly spicy as we’ve reduced the sheer amount of robot assembly that you could gain by no longer scaling the number of roboticists by the tier of the capital building. Though, of the changes we’ve made, the ability to convert all species (including other empires’ robots) into your synths is one of my favorites.

Another change we made alongside this rework was that the Mechanists origin has lost their -5% robot upkeep modifier in exchange for +15% robot build speed, +1 robot trait pick and having the Machine Template System technology available as a research option from the start of the game.

That's it for this week! Be sure to join us on twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive at 3 PM CEST (UTC + 2) where Game Director Eladrin will be showing off the Combat Rebalance live on Stream!

View attachment 885871​

What about becoming energy life forms as alternative to transcendence? :v
There was also roumors about ascension paths workling like "become crisis" mechanic?

also: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...io-ascention-via-reducing-some-micro.1517809/ this can be usefull.

The finisher for the tradition tree grants 50 edict fund and more importantly a Special Project that when completed will allow you to form a Covenant with a random Shroud Entity.

What do You mean by "random"? I have to make covenant with any entity, or its a assured contact, but shroud still can roll other random covenants?

And last:
Why hive cannot go psionic? And dont tell me because hive is already psionically connected, becuase they are not. If they do, they should be connected/disconnected by psionic traditions, and not genetic/cybernetic ones.

 

[Alfray Stryke]

Right then, back from lunch and answering questions.

Some were duplicated so I quoted the first instance I found.

The tradition artworks are amazing btw, especially psionic. In case of psionic i really wish we could choose our covenant with the final tradition. Maybe a chance?

1) The covenant is apparently random, if we don't get the one we want can we decline and do it again? The psionic RNG isn't super fun, particularly as it's the only one that relies on it

It currently uses the same weighting for the covenant that exists in 3.5. However you can reject the pact offered and hope to get another offer when you enter the shroud later. We've got some ideas for looking at covenants in more detail, but I'm not sure when we'd be looking at those.

2) Are there any changes to pop-template management planned?

Nothing yet, however it's a common topic of discussion in the design team and we recognise that it could be improved.

3) The replicator job for capital buildings is cool, could something like that be added to the mechanist origin?

It could be, I'll be looking at feedback given during the open beta and seeing what changes should be made.

Did you guys Experiment with making all Ascension paths work like the "becoming the crisis" with levels and "Experience" collecting? So reaching Ascension is like becoming the crisis an ongoing progress with different feats to fulfill to reach the end goal of a Ascension?

This was considered, but we wanted players to both be able to have an ascension path and take the become the crisis path without them interfering with each other.

Hum. Does the devs' consider having one more tradition slot on the vanilla game ? OR a special slot (or 0 slot cost) for the ascension tradition ?

The opportunity cost of taking an ascension path and thus having one less tradition tree was considered a positive aspect of this rework.

If Overtuned empires can go Cybernetic

They can.

Is there no way to keep the Latent Psionic trait on your primary species and finish the psionic tradition ?

Nope, in order to fully explore the Shroud you must fully embrace psionics.

Why hive cannot go psionic?

Because the vast majority of this rework was done as an experimental project of mine, done during self-development time and over summer, working with limited art, code and narrative design support, we determined that giving hive-minds access to psionics and doing it justice would take more resources than we had available.


Otherwise, for the various comments that have mentioned balance concerns - the primary reason we're including this in an open beta is so that we can gather feedback on the massive changes made and then take that feedback into account before the patch is finalised.

 

[Aquaborg13]

In my opinion, the synthetic ascension path for machines is not very interesting because it lacks flavor and because it is the only path machine that aren't driven assimilators can take.

Biological empires and biological hive minds get several mutually exclusive ascension paths that, in my opinion, represent their empire embracing wacky sci-fi concepts such as psionics, radical genetic engineering, and mind uploading.

On the other hand, non-driven assimilator machine empires get one ascension path that just seems to represent them making their robots better. I don't think it is nearly as flavorful as the ascension paths biological empires get.

I understand if this is outside the scope of the planned changes to ascension paths, but I wish every machine empire type had at least two flavorful, mutually exclusive ascension paths they could take.

 

[Silens]

Great things in there, thank you for giving Ascensions their much-needed update! I especially love the Bio Ascension changes.

My obligatory first question is about the Shroud itself. I know it's on your to-do list, so I simply have to ask: How are things on that end?

• The finisher for the tradition tree grants 50 edict fund and more importantly a Special Project that when completed will allow you to form a Covenant with a random Shroud Entity.

I love playing Psionic empires, but I often tend to go the xenophobe/slaver route. As such it's almost unbearable for me to form any sort of Covenant, as it's more or less a glorified sell-out to some xeno entity.

With that in mind, any chance we might get different options with Shroud entities depending on our ethics? A 'simple' choice between selling out to them (easy choice, Spiritualist and Pacifist ethics), cooperation on equal terms (medium choice, Xenophile and Egalitarian ethics) and subjugating the thing (hard choice, Xenophobe/Authoritarian and Militarist ethics) would we welcome here.

Synthetic Traditions

Sometimes I like to play Synths, but my main gripe with them is the relatively high chance of leader malfunction (12% every 10 years). In practise they die more often than bio leaders, which shouldn't happen in the first place. The whole idea of becoming a Synth revolves around the idea of preventing such things and I see no mention of it in the whole DD.

Any thoughts on it from you on that matter? Maybe a change towards "leader malfuctioned, went back to last backup, lost 500 exp" instead of perma-death? Having the highest leader deaths among all Ascensions seems to run a bit against the whole theme of what the Ascension is about.

Genetic Ascension Path

Since you mentioned Leviathans interacting with this Ascension, do you have any thoughts on expanding the interactivity between Bio Ascension and some of the biological ship components? I'm thinking about Energy Siphon, Regenerative Hull and Amoeba Flagella.

To me it seems almost a bit strange that biological components, that are based on large living organisms, aren't really affected by an Ascension path that revolves around unlocking the full genetic potential of living matter.


Again, thank you for the great DD!

 

[zZander56]

I absolutely love what you did with the Cybernetic path! Going half robo always seemed more interesting than going full robo to me.

I've just got a few questions relating to this new path:

• Will we get more trait *points* to utilize the new cybernetic traits? Are we meant to get extra points through the provided negatives?
• Will bonuses to robot build speed effect the building of cyborgs? (What is this meant to be in flavor, anyways?)
• Will the materialist faction be satisfied by the existence of cyborgs alone? (Currently, a lack of robots will make them angry, but that might happen more often now that cyborgs can be assembled.)
• Will any more events or pop-ups be tied to this ascension, since it is now an end rather than a transitional point?

Thanks.

Also, I really appreciate the addition of a robotic Trade Value trait. It always annoyed me that synthetically ascending could seriously harm the base of my economy as a TV empire. Cyborgs now far out-compete the other paths in terms of trade, which seems appropriate considering the associated genre
I'm already imagining an Overtuned cybernetic Megacorp. Fun in flavor and great in mechanics.

A couple of other questions related to paths in general:

• Any plans for allowing Overlords to export their ascension to their subjects? I could see this being done on a light scale through holdings. Say, a building that converts a couple of pops a year in exchange for energy or the like. (This would also make for a fun branch office building. Exporting transcendence and such.)
• Can biologically ascended empires apply cybernetic templates to pops?

On an almost entirely but not completely unrelated note, are there any plans to adjust migration mechanics? (It's related due to the diversity of ascended pops.)
Currently, even after stacking many migration attraction bonuses, the game can quickly get to a point where emigration push is so low that all the immigration pull in the world won't do anything to increase migration numbers, which is kind of disappointing. I don't think it would take too much adjusting to add a couple of emigration push sources to solve this. The fantasy of an empire so desirable it draws in the citizens of other nations peacefully is a strong one, but the mechanics aren't backing it up.

 

[Ikael]

Love it! Even if I would have liked a Nemesis-like system better, I feel that this is a massive improvement over the old Ascension Path System, so my congratulations to Alfary!

What I like about it:

- You need one Ascension Perk only
- Requirements (tech projects, assimilate X pops, etc) and bonuses spread amongst a Tradition tree make Ascension paths a longer process, rather than a "one and done" thing, which was my main problem with the old system
- Cybernetics becoming its own ascension (!)
- Psionic ascension getting somehow buffed, and on a different way from other ascensions too (few pops blessed by bonuses, but very productive ones)
- Gestalts & machine empires getting access to different ascension paths, at long last
- Civics giving access to certain ascension types (see Assimilators being able to get cybernetic ascension, for example)
- I love the idea of being able to add robot traits to cybernetic pops, even if that demands higher maintenance
- Massive improvements for biological ascension in general, both in terms of power levels and flavor. I especially like the unique, rare super bio traits. Seriously, this is my favorite "glow-up" out of the 4 possible ascensions

What I feel it's missing:

- A bigger presence of ascension paths during the entire game, especially at the late game. Perhaps unique endgame victory conditions could be in order?
- Cybernetic ascension having its own flavor. Right now it seems that it is still "finding its footing". I sense massive cyberpunk potential here!
- Reworked (read: buffed) psionic covenants, so they don't suck (even if I would personally prefer some kind of psi specialization system instead so you can decide whether your psikers become telepaths, oracles or whatever)
- More unique "toys" and possibilities for each type of ascension (unique edicts, spy operations, ships, traits, whatever). The more the merrier!
- Talking about that, I still believe that ascension-unique civics are a good idea, really, as long as they are added as their own civic slot, rather than replacing regular civics and thus, homogenizing empires
- More diplomatic consequences for fulfilling ascension paths. There is a ton of potential here for emergent narratives now that there are many diplomatic systems in place (vassals, federations, galactic custodianship...)
- More internal empire affairs disruption. I understand that this might not be "a thing" until internal politics are reworked. But I do think that political structures should reflect those massive societal changes that ascension paths represent
- We totally need an option to splice our DNA with Bubbles if we reach the endgame with our favorite pet alive.

 

[Cassilda]

I love the new ascension perks update, how long before the beta is available?

 

[Eladrin]

I love the new ascension perks update, how long before the beta is available?

Soooooon.

There's a reason this was a really long dev diary.

 

[Archael90]

I absolutely love what you did with the Cybernetic path! Going half robo always seemed more interesting than going full robo to me.

I've just got a few questions relating to this new path:

• Will we get more trait *points* to utilize the new cybernetic traits? Are we meant to get extra points through the provided negatives?
• Will bonuses to robot build speed effect the building of cyborgs? (What is this meant to be in flavor, anyways?)
• Will the materialist faction be satisfied by the existence of cyborgs alone? (Currently, a lack of robots will make them angry, but that might happen more often now that cyborgs can be assembled.)
• Will any more events or pop-ups be tied to this ascension, since it is now an end rather than a transitional point?

This is a beta patch for numers and tweaks i believe, so such question i would leave for live version.
Tho its a good reminder, because some things could be forgotten here.
I have some also:
How traditionalists will react to new APs, especially cybernetics and synthetics.
Will it be possible to awaken psionic potential in cybernetic pops now since those are not concidered robots?
But those are also suggestions for official reliese, not beta on its own.

 

[DarkSafire]

The opportunity cost of taking an ascension path and thus having one less tradition tree was considered a positive aspect of this rework.

Will other traditions will be buffed then? Lets say i dont want to pick ascension, thats puts me in disadvantage compared to other AIs/players who do pick it. Currently no tradition offers benefits comparable to full ascension path.

 

[roman566]

The opportunity cost of taking an ascension path and thus having one less tradition tree was considered a positive aspect of this rework.

Ascension Perks are worth way less than Tradition tree. This new system, while really cool, nerfs the ascension paths. Are they good? Yes. Are there better traditions that just give you stuff for clicking a button? Definitely. IMO these new ascension paths changed the entire concept from 'must have' into 'meh'.

 

[zZander56]

This is a beta patch for numers and tweaks i believe, so such question i would leave for live version.
Tho its a good reminder, because some things could be forgotten here.
I have some also:
How traditionalists will react to new APs, especially cybernetics and synthetics.
Will it be possible to awaken psionic potential in cybernetic pops now since those are not concidered robots?
But those are also suggestions for official reliese, not beta on its own.

No harm in asking about future plans. I don't expect this all to be worked out now, I'm just looking for thoughts.

 

[Jorlem]

For gaining/choosing the psionic covenants, and the Shroud in general, have you considered allowing empires to improve their skill in navigating the Shroud over time, possibly by spending zro? That is, when you enter the Shroud after you’ve done it x number of times before, you get an event with a bunch of options, the first makes the Shroud work like it currently does, and the other ones let you spend zro to weight the roll toward the sort of event you want. Something similar could be done for covenants, spending zro to weight the roll toward the one desired.

Also, what happens if you pick the ascension perk as your last? Is there a way to drop a filled path, or are you out of luck and have wasted a perk slot because you have no path slots to use to ascend?

 

[jayparadoritox]

The changes to Genetics ascension are actually incredible... and it was already my favourite ascension path before! You've made one very happy splicer!

 

[Turnil]

1. Will Roboticists be able to change to organic assembly production when choosing cybernetics so you can stack the assembly with other sources (like with Medical Workers and Offspring Drones)?
2. Can hiveminds now get Roboticists when they take cybernetics?

 

[Imp0815]

This was considered, but we wanted players to both be able to have an ascension path and take the become the crisis path without them interfering with each other.

For Balance reasons "Becoming the Crisis" could be changed and buffed to be a Ascension. Would not be far fetched. Also there are some Tabs left in the Traditions window .

I don't know how the internal discussion went but for me personally, a progress as the Crisis mechanics would be much much more fitting to "Ascend" your Empire.
This would be a shift from "Collect Unity to unlock Perk" to really alter your play style based on how fast and how you want to Ascend. This would really breath fresh air into the whole affair of Ascensions. Now we shifted from Tradition -> Perk to Tradition -> Perk -> Tradition. Not really a change on how you interact with Ascensions.
Sorry if this comes across rude it just felt much more fitting to me after reading your whole approach to the topic. After all i'm really happy and excited that you people invest so much time and effort in making the game evolve and i just want to provide some feedback and i am really invested in this game and how its evolving. ♥