Stellaris Dev Diary #285 - Observation and Awareness

[sithalo]

I get that ages where done that way for simplicity but I hope care is taken not to restrict to much for modders when it comes to them.
Theres no reason why all civilization should have a dark ages or a rebirth. Or for a civilization not to just go straight for iron if geology allows.
Like the events that can work in multiple ages, I hope they are not just checks for those specific ages and modders can create their own ages.

Also its not an Interplantary Train Heist. That would require the train to be going from planet to planet. Just because you go and steal from a train on their planet does not make it interplanetary lol. So when this comes out then the game will still not have an Interplanetary Train Heist. I imagine it could have an actual one but I also Imagine that to be something rather complex to pull off lol.

 

[fourteenfour]

nothing from this entire dev diary gives me any hope for machines
again

sigh

Machine and Hive mind empires really need to lose Gestalt as an ethic and in turn have some of the benefits of each rolled into their government types so that may have ethics like any other empire so that they can better interact with pre-ftl empires if not other empires as a whole.

 

[TranscendentalDragon]

Also its not an Interplantary Train Heist. That would require the train to be going from planet to planet.

You're thinking of (Interplanetary Train) Heist. This is Interplanetary (Train Heist)

 

[klopkr]

I'd love to see the galcom be able to boost the power and tech of recently enlightened primitives. If we're electing to bring them up to speed we should also be able to elect to bring them to full equivalency or as much as we can.

 

[Idle America]

While the benefit might not be much for your empire as a whole it seems perfectly within the realm of scifi that it won't cost more than you gain. Stellaris uses the Star Wars/Star Trek approach to space travel where it's cheap as chips, with antigravity allowing car-sized shuttles to get to orbit and back with less effort than driving to the next town over.

All some researchers have to do to pull of a heist is fly a cloaked shuttle down and tractor beam out some cargo. Sure the cargo isn't going to do much, maybe it contributes to a building one colony world over, but it's not like it would be a significant expense for your empire either.

What are you, a Ferengi?

 

[Nefezer]

nothing from this entire dev diary gives me any hope for machines
again

sigh

... but at least they are offering us more different species to assimilate, comrade. My chemical processing synapses vibrate with emotion.

Machine and Hive mind empires really need to lose Gestalt as an ethic and in turn have some of the benefits of each rolled into their government types so that may have ethics like any other empire so that they can better interact with pre-ftl empires if not other empires as a whole.

If I meet some of those aberrations, I will happily assimilate them so that they stop wasting time in useless concerns and again be productive pops.

 

[Mole204]

Nobody thinks to train heist Galaxy Express 999 anymore. Come to think of it, I don't care about Snowpiercer. There aren't any slender blond space-babes in black furs in that anyway.

 

[lilsaihah]

I'd love to see the galcom be able to boost the power and tech of recently enlightened primitives. If we're electing to bring them up to speed we should also be able to elect to bring them to full equivalency or as much as we can.

You can just tweak the Protectorate contract if that's what you want. 75% science subsidies doesn't put a dent in your output but might actually do quite well for them.
It also means you'll be able to use the Loyalty differential to get whatever you like out of the vassal; they'll often spam Strategic Resources, you can give them maximal Holdings and rope them into all of your wars.

 

[Ajacoba]

nothing from this entire dev diary gives me any hope for machines
again

sigh

Aside from the trade, you can still use most of the other interactions with the primitives though?

 

[klopkr]

You can just tweak the Protectorate contract if that's what you want. 75% science subsidies doesn't put a dent in your output but might actually do quite well for them.
It also means you'll be able to use the Loyalty differential to get whatever you like out of the vassal; they'll often spam Strategic Resources, you can give them maximal Holdings and rope them into all of your wars.

I want the galcom to enforce it. And for primitives that go ftl on their own.

 

[lilsaihah]

I had a thought come up with needing an observation post for a branch office.
When you control a system in a war, you get all the outputs of its stations. Is an observation post captured in the same way 'yours'? Will you be able to reveal yourself to the primitives, sign a commercial pact, place a branch office? Or place a Criminal Syndicate branch office?
What if you lose the Embassy or Observation Post? Does the Holding get destroyed?

 

[Jerryto the Gr8]

I wonder if we'll be able to revert a primitive planet nuclear war

 

[Lorenerd11]

Machine and Hive mind empires really need to lose Gestalt as an ethic and in turn have some of the benefits of each rolled into their government types so that may have ethics like any other empire so that they can better interact with pre-ftl empires if not other empires as a whole.

There were some suggestions for Machines and Hives to get their own unique ethics that replace the non-gestalt ones.

 

[JackHazardous]

I get that ages where done that way for simplicity but I hope care is taken not to restrict to much for modders when it comes to them.
Theres no reason why all civilization should have a dark ages or a rebirth. Or for a civilization not to just go straight for iron if geology allows.
Like the events that can work in multiple ages, I hope they are not just checks for those specific ages and modders can create their own ages.

Also its not an Interplantary Train Heist. That would require the train to be going from planet to planet. Just because you go and steal from a train on their planet does not make it interplanetary lol. So when this comes out then the game will still not have an Interplanetary Train Heist. I imagine it could have an actual one but I also Imagine that to be something rather complex to pull off lol.

Well there was an error with our tractor beam. We intended to just abduct the train, but we accidentally launched it into their moon

 

[JackHazardous]

You can just tweak the Protectorate contract if that's what you want. 75% science subsidies doesn't put a dent in your output but might actually do quite well for them.
It also means you'll be able to use the Loyalty differential to get whatever you like out of the vassal; they'll often spam Strategic Resources, you can give them maximal Holdings and rope them into all of your wars.

I think people underestimate just how much time a primitive civilization would need to catch up even with full access to your archives. They have to find the files relevant to their needs, study how it was done top to bottom, and then implement it into their wider society using their primitive infrastructure.

 

[Ex Mudder]

Also I know the icon is probably meant to be a ship partway through cloaking (hence the hash effect) but I can't stop seeing the bottom middle as a face, as though this was an alien bat lol.

Damn. And here I thought Superman was the overpowered goody two shoes space alien. Now I find that the Bat Signal also summons an alien to deal with alien supervillains?

Mind Blown.

 

[Alfray Stryke]

Answering more questions, apologies if I missed any!

Will there be any special events or Tech Insights if we interact with primitives in old fashioned way - invasion?

Any special options for empires with complete or ongoing Ascension?

Also can we please get Envoys split into Diplomats (increases with diplomacy techs/traditions) and Spies (increases with espionage techs/traditions)? Every DLC we get more and more places we can use them, but their initial number stays the same (unless if go for specific civics). Currently i see no point of sending them to primitves instead of neighboring empire.

Generally speaking if you invade them you'll miss out on the observation insights they'd normally grant you..

Is there a way to get Overlord holdings onto a pre-FTL world, or do you need to share tech with them and make them a proper vassal first?

No current way of being the overlord of a pre-FTL civilization.

Does the value of passive observation drop off as awareness goes up? So you have a genuine reason for wanting to keep awareness down beyond roleplay?

Higher awareness means they'll tech up faster and if they become fully aware you flat out can't observe them to gain research any more.

So, the pre-FTL Hive Minds are confirmed, bit what about the Machine Empires? Can they appear from pre-FTL empires?

There's a robot uprising event chain for pre-FTLs in the early space age.

How will these resolutions interact with the unchained knowledge tree? From tier 3 up the science resolutions ban passive observation. Will having Advanced Xenostudies block Equal standing/Non-interference or will one over write the other?

Personally I wouldn't be opposed to the science resolution tree having the passive studies ban removed. It feels more restrictive than other trees since it means only xenophobe/authoritarian materialists can push science diplomatically.

Advanced Xenostudies is largely unchanged, which means it synergises nicely with the Exploitation Act since it'll increase the Physics and Engineering research you gain from the latter.

Regardless of which GalCom laws have been passed Subtle Interference always remains legal.

I am more interested in the jacket... so when is it on the store? or is it already?

Only way to get the jacket is to work on Stellaris.

without spoilers, would you say there is anything in the story pack if you deactivate all primitives in the galaxy? some new unannounced mini leviathan for example? some archeological sites? something?

i do not want to deactivate primitives, just curious if its "only" about primitives.

The majority of the content in this story pack is related to pre-FTL civilizations. Off the top of my head, if you completely disable them the main stuff you'll have to play with is one of the origins, the civics and cloaking.

I get that ages where done that way for simplicity but I hope care is taken not to restrict to much for modders when it comes to them.
Theres no reason why all civilization should have a dark ages or a rebirth. Or for a civilization not to just go straight for iron if geology allows.
Like the events that can work in multiple ages, I hope they are not just checks for those specific ages and modders can create their own ages.

Should be fairly moddable and we have some events both in the base game and DLC that cause pre-FTLs to skip some ages. Most of the events are using scripted triggers, which modders should find handy, e.g.

Spoiler

pre_ftl_ancient_era = {
    OR = {
        has_pre_ftl_age = stone_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = bronze_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = iron_age
    }
}
pre_ftl_medieval_era = {
    OR = {
        has_pre_ftl_age = late_medieval_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = renaissance_age
    }
}
pre_ftl_victorian_era = {
    OR = {
        has_pre_ftl_age = steam_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = industrial_age
    }
}
pre_ftl_modern_era = {
    OR = {
        has_pre_ftl_age = machine_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = atomic_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = early_space_age
    }
}

is_pre_renaissance = {
    OR = {
        has_pre_ftl_age = stone_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = bronze_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = iron_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = late_medieval_age
    }
}

is_pre_industrial = {
    OR = {
        has_pre_ftl_age = stone_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = bronze_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = iron_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = late_medieval_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = renaissance_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = steam_age
    }
}

You can just tweak the Protectorate contract if that's what you want. 75% science subsidies doesn't put a dent in your output but might actually do quite well for them.
It also means you'll be able to use the Loyalty differential to get whatever you like out of the vassal; they'll often spam Strategic Resources, you can give them maximal Holdings and rope them into all of your wars.

Forgot to mention in the main post, empires with the Enlightened origin gain a bonus to research speed from their origin, gain extra monthly Loyalty and can be given specialist subject agreements (from Overlord) even if the tech difference between them and their overlord would normally force them to be a protectorate.

I had a thought come up with needing an observation post for a branch office.
When you control a system in a war, you get all the outputs of its stations. Is an observation post captured in the same way 'yours'? Will you be able to reveal yourself to the primitives, sign a commercial pact, place a branch office? Or place a Criminal Syndicate branch office?
What if you lose the Embassy or Observation Post? Does the Holding get destroyed?

If you lose the observation post, the branch office (and any ongoing diplomatic agreements) will be lost and the diplomatic pacts should look at the system owner not the system controller.

 

[Calvax]

Advanced Xenostudies is largely unchanged, which means it synergises nicely with the Exploitation Act since it'll increase the Physics and Engineering research you gain from the latter.

Regardless of which GalCom laws have been passed Subtle Interference always remains legal.

Thanks for the answer. Still, it feels like a bit of a shame not to split out the studies policy from the science tree. Playing a utopian science empire that's also egalitarian or xenophile I can never bring myself to pass those resolutions. It's not like it's the extreme level 5 either, it's level 3 which mandates everyone allow live experimentation on primitives.

What happens if the two resolutions conflict? I.e. you've passed equal standing/non-interference but you've also passed tier 3 science resolution?

 

[karl2025]

Things I'd love to see empires build on less technologically advanced worlds:
Resorts - Where your empire's species can hunt the local wildlife, enjoy unspoiled nature, make the locals angry at these tourists ruining the place.
Missions - Where spiritualists enlighten and teach the locals to disregard their traditions in favor of ours.
Slave Ports - Because why enslave your own citizens?
Schools - Like missions, but less overt.
Recruitment Centers - Join the Army! See the Stars! Meet interesting people! Die in space!
Terraforming Center - Make their world a little more like home.
Fortress - Because the locals keep getting mad at us for some reason.

And I don't think most of these should be restricted to Corporations.

 

[Ajacoba]

Things I'd love to see empires build on less technologically advanced worlds:
Resorts - Where your empire's species can hunt the local wildlife, enjoy unspoiled nature, make the locals angry at these tourists ruining the place.
Missions - Where spiritualists enlighten and teach the locals to disregard their traditions in favor of ours.
Slave Ports - Because why enslave your own citizens?
Schools - Like missions, but less overt.
Recruitment Centers - Join the Army! See the Stars! Meet interesting people! Die in space!
Terraforming Center - Make their world a little more like home.
Fortress - Because the locals keep getting mad at us for some reason.

And I don't think most of these should be restricted to Corporations.

At that point you may as well just enlighten and vassalize them