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Stellaris Dev Diary #288 - Payback and Insights

Nothing unites people more than a common enemy.

You know how the story goes: space invaders attack, and the people of the world unite, casting aside their differences to stand together against a shared threat. Together, they defeat the more advanced enemy, who foolishly underestimated the plucky underdogs.

But what happens after the story ends? The former invaders are still out there, and they won’t be fooled again. An awkward reunion is unavoidable.
I'm CheerfulGoth, a content designer on Stellaris, and this is the story I wanted to tell with Payback.


Payback is the “sibling” of Broken Shackles, two origins united by a common threat: Minamar Specialized Industries, a megacorp that provides pre-FTL enlightenment – for a price. While Broken Shackles focuses more on reconnecting with your past, Payback empires only see one thing in their future: revenge.

Payback Origin Tooltip


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The means of achieving that revenge are up to you. Annihilate your enemy? Turn your slavers into your slaves? Or battle them on the floor of the Galactic senate, outlawing their very business model? Even Pacifist empires will have the means to obtain their vendetta without betraying their ideals.

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Revenge doesn’t have to be synonymous with violence.
Don’t be too hasty in your quest for revenge, though. Rest. Take your time to rebuild. The war against MSI left you with a devastated planet... And the remnant of a battleship to be repurposed for your own needs.

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Make new allies (Broken Shackles empires might be particularly inclined to help you). Remember: revenge is a dish best served cold. Don’t wait too long, though, because the Minamar Specialized Industries surely won’t let you alone.

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You want to make them pay? The feeling is mutual.

We’re not so different, you and I​

The galaxy of Stellaris is already filled with extra-dimensional invaders, space dragons, and all kinds of unimaginable horrors. With Payback and Broken Shackles, we wanted to pit players against an enemy not so different from themselves. Minamar Specialized industry starts as a developed empire with extra colonies and resources, but otherwise behaves like a normal empire with a well-defined personality. They will make their own alliances, join their Galactic Community, wage their wars... and might even fall before you can get your due.

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What will you do when even revenge is stolen from you?

Many of our narrative Origins present a fixed story. With Payback, we wanted to create a less linear narrative, providing players with multiple tools to accomplish their goal. Sometimes things don’t go as planned, but we believe that’s what will make this origin more interesting and replayable.

We give you an enemy. You tell us how you want to pay them back.



Insights​


Now for the return of PDS_Iggy who desperately wants you to stop invading pre-FTLs.

A common issue that has been brought up in regards to this DLC is “Why shouldn’t I just invade the pre-FTLs the moment I meet them” and I am here to present a counter offer. What if I give you unique techs?

Insight Technologies are gained when you study pre-FTLs without making them aware of you. They are unique paths their society take which you have dismissed as dead ends. This is all tracked through a situation which, once completed, will make a future observation event grant you a new Insight.

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We can learn from anything and anyone.

If you haven’t completed the situation when you get an observation event instead you gain even faster progress to the next Insight.

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I am sure it’s nothing.

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These Insight technologies are designed to have unique and flavorful effects. So let me share a few with you.

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Let’s see how close we can get with our observation station.

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A smart hunter lets the environment aid their hunt.

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How were the pyramids built? Let's check!

As you can see these technologies grant you partial Envoys as well as a unique benefit. Therefore, the more you spy and study the pre-FTLs, the more you can do it!

Next week, Alfray Stryke will finally tell you about cloaking, and I might be back to help him explain the new civics!

 

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Is that an existing mechanic? I seem to recall it working that way when I played with a friend as two vassals to the same empire.
It works that way for Imperial Fiefdom. You're both vassals to the same overlord.
I only use custom empire pool from which all AI empires are picked. If I create custom empires with this origin, can the AI use it? If yes, can there be more than one empire with this origin?
I think the first question is a "yes" because Imperial Fiefdom was described with similar restrictions. The AI isn't allowed to randomly spawn an empire for it, but I've had one of the empires I've played previously with the origin show up in a MP game. I don't know about the second question.
 
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it's explicitly tied to the MSI so probably not

speaking of primitives, do they get the Insight tech you got out of them once they make it to the space age? they DID progress that way unlike you after all.
Pre-FTL civilizations that beat off a FTL attack should trigger some sort of event. I believe at the moment, if you lose an invasion, nothing will happen.
 
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The insight tech is great and all, but what prevents me from invading the pre-FTL planet after I got all the insight techs? (I’m hinting at perhaps repeatable insight tech that is not too good but good enough to prevent me from invading)
 
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The insight tech is great and all, but what prevents me from invading the pre-FTL planet after I got all the insight techs? (I’m hinting at perhaps repeatable insight tech that is not too good but good enough to prevent me from invading)
1. The flat unity and society research (without any empire sprawl) from observation posts.
2. The fact that by the time you get all the insight techs, a single planet with 3-14 pops will not even be worth the attention to conquer them. May as well just enlighten them and make them into a protectorate vassal giving max taxes, and have one fewer world to manage.
 
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1. The flat unity and society research (without any empire sprawl) from observation posts.
2. The fact that by the time you get all the insight techs, a single planet with 3-14 pops will not even be worth the attention to conquer them. May as well just enlighten them and make them into a protectorate vassal giving max taxes, and have one fewer world to manage.
1) Still worth less than a planet's worth of resources even w/ empire sprawl
2) So it's a colony that starts on 3+ pops instead of 2? Sign me the hell up.
 
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1) Still worth less than a planet's worth of resources even w/ empire sprawl
2) So it's a colony that starts on 3+ pops instead of 2? Sign me the hell up.
Right. There's also the whole Awareness thing. As soon as they know you are there, you might as well invade them since you can't get any more insights.
 
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Nice and colorful background for the main menu. I think this would be the first background with a scene inside a planet and not from space. I love it!
 
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But what happens after the story ends? The former invaders are still out there, and they won’t be fooled again. An awkward reunion is unavoidable.
That's when you get a bunch of kids, overwork them to their breaking point, tell them they're playing a simulation, and then act confused when they're horrified they've actually just glassed an entire species.
 
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Does this mean the Primitive Interference laws in the Galactic Community have been changed to single bans, instead of one enforced and the other two automatically banned?
 
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Yeah i too cannot BELIEVE they had the gall to work on an underdeveloped mechanic people have been asking for content for years and then even added roleplaying options and events for it on a role playing game instead of leaving it as glorified invasion fodder for easy pops so you can disregard roleplay altogether and grow your population for free and further minmax your empire.
THE AUDACITY OF IT!
The problem is it's largely really bad at meeting those design goals. Which is why some of us are somewhere between disappointed and outright complaining.
 
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With Payback/Broken Shackles and Imperial Fiefdom we are getting an increasing number of origins and empires that will never spawn unless the player takes one. There are also an increasing number of "canon" nations that very rarely spawn. Can we have an option to play in a fully "canon" galaxy where all prescripted empires spawn, including Imperial Fiefdom and all the MSI related empires? I imagine the Blorg would have some interesting actions with MSI, and the Kilick I am sure would have many angry words for them.
 
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With Payback/Broken Shackles and Imperial Fiefdom we are getting an increasing number of origins and empires that will never spawn unless the player takes one. There are also an increasing number of "canon" nations that very rarely spawn. Can we have an option to play in a fully "canon" galaxy where all prescripted empires spawn, including Imperial Fiefdom and all the MSI related empires? I imagine the Blorg would have some interesting actions with MSI, and the Kilick I am sure would have many angry words for them.
Force spawning does all of that for you. Just make an empire with Payback/Broken Shackles and set it to force spawn and it spawns the others. Even your 'canon galaxy'. click on it, save it, set it to force spawn and tadaa, you have it.
 
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Where'd you get those pictures?
These images? They are available on the pre-purchase page of the dlc on steam along with a couple more.

PD: I think the background image of the menu is inspired by Avatar or something like that.
 
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Receiving a couple, flavored, "unique" techs doesn't weigh up the loss of an entire system (+ several planets if there are any). What's the point of NOT invading a pre-FTL species UNLESS it's really just one planet in that system?
This DLC is shaping up to be disappointing IMO. A lot of fluff and no changes to the pre-FTL mechanics (bar the integration into the Intel, Diplomacy and Espionage system).
By the same metric, what is the use of a single system, and a single planet with only up to 28 pops on it?
Even by mid game, 30 pops is pretty inconsequential. Some of those techs look pretty juicy, like -30% empire size from districts. I typically play on large and 5x planets, that -30% from districts alone is worth a couple dozen researchers and bureaucrats by mid game. More than I'd get from a primitive planet.
 
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