• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Stellaris Dev Diary #289 - Hide and Seek

A staple of sci-fi that has long been missing from Stellaris is the ability to have fleets and stations capable of being cloaked and hiding from enemy sensors. With the addition of Awareness and improvements to interactions with pre-FTL civilizations, we felt that First Contact was the right place to explore how cloaking could be added to the game in a meaningful way, tying into warfare, exploration and espionage.

When we set out to design the cloaking and counter-cloaking systems our goals were that:
  • Science ships should be able to equip cloaking devices to allow exploration of space regardless of if another empire has closed their borders to you.
  • Observation posts should be capable of being hidden from the pre-FTL civilizations they were observing.
  • Military vessels should be capable of cloaking, with limitations. Cloaking should be balanced such that it is better to cloak frigates or cruisers than battleships.
  • Cloaking should interact with the existing espionage system.

So how does this work in practice?

Cloaking Field Generators are a new type of ship component that is limited to one per ship and occupies either an Aux slot (for designable ships) or a special cloaking device slot (for undesignable ships e.g., science ships or observation posts). The first cloaking devices available can only be equipped on corvettes, frigates, science ships and observation posts. As technology improves so does the cloaking strength provided by the cloaking devices and the size of ship they are capable of cloaking.

1677744583823.png

Basic Cloaking Field Generators unlock cloaking for corvettes, frigates and selected civilian ships.

1677488126679.png

Advanced Cloaking Field Generators unlock cloaking for destroyers.

1677488136721.png

Elite Cloaking Field Generators unlock cloaking for cruisers.

1677488147617.png

Dark Matter Cloaking Field Generators unlock cloaking for battleships and titans.

1677488159293.png

Psi-Phase Field Generators unlock cloaking for battleships and titans and offer the best cloaking strength in the game.

While cloaked, ships and fleets can ignore closed borders and can’t be detected by normal sensors. This can be useful for a variety of reasons such as having science ships explore and survey systems that might otherwise be blocked off, research anomalies or special projects inside the borders of your rivals or getting a well armed fleet situated to ambush an enemy starbase upon war declaration. Cloaked science ships will also have another trick up their sleeves, being able to perform covert reconnaissance on colonized planets to gather Intel on other empires and increasing the speed at which this Intel is gained. Finally, cloaked fleets and observation posts can’t be seen by pre-FTL civilizations, so using them will minimize your chances of accidentally increasing their Awareness.

1677488259740.png

Performing reconnaissance on an enemy can provide a great deal of Intelligence.

Due to the power draw and manipulation of particle fields, cloaking imposes penalties on the shields of ships while cloaked, depending on the type of cloaking device equipped:
  • Ships equipped with a Basic, Advanced or Elite Cloaking Field Generator suffer from 100% Shield Nullification while cloaked.
  • Ships equipped with a Dark Matter Cloaking Field Generator have a reduced penalty of 50% Shield Nullification.
  • Ships equipped with a Psi-Phase Field Generator and any regular shields will suffer from 100% Shield Nullification while cloaked.
  • Ships equipped with a Psi-Phase Field Generator and psionic shields or barriers will not suffer from any Shield Nullification while cloaked.
It’s important to note here that as of 3.7 “Canis Minor”, both Shield Nullification and Armor Nullification have had a slight change. Previously, if a fleet suffered from 100% Shield Nullification (such as being in a pulsar system) and then the nullification was removed (say by leaving the system), their shields would instantly jump back up to full strength. This has been changed so that the fleet has to restore shields back to full capacity via their shield regeneration.

1677488289848.png

Spreadsheets are an important part of our design workflow!

The cloaking strength of a fleet is determined by the ship in that fleet with the lowest possible cloaking strength. Thus, in order to be able to cloak, all ships in the fleet must be capable of cloaking. How well a fleet can cloak is described by the stability of the cloaking field of a fleet and can range from Non-Existent to Exceptional depending on the cloaking strength of the fleet.

This stability (or cloaking strength) factors into both how easily a starbase can detect or reveal the cloaked fleet (more on this later) and what penalties (if any) the fleet may suffer from.

It’s worth keeping in mind that, as the cloaking strength of a fleet is determined by the ship with the lowest cloaking strength in the fleet, a fleet of mixed battleships and corvettes will have a lower cloaking strength (and be more easily detected) than a fleet solely comprised of corvettes.

The highest level of cloaking strength and the corresponding cloaking field stability obtainable purely by ship components is 5 (Very High). In order to reach strength 6 or greater and thus the various grades of Exceptional stability, your fleets will require additional sources of cloaking strength, such as finishing Subterfuge traditions or hiding in a nebula.

1677488316070.png

Cloaking Strength levels and penalties

1677488332278.png

A UNE science ship makes use of a nebula to boost their cloaking strength.

In order to be detected or revealed a fleet needs to be within sensor range of an enemy starbase with a Detection Strength equal to or greater than the Cloaking Strength of the fleet. Detection Strength is normally gained by building Detection Array modules on a starbase, though certain rare technologies can unlock buildings or orders for science ships to further increase this.

1677488357262.png

Oh, and we rearranged the starbase UI to list various previously hidden modifiers.

When a fleet is detected by a starbase, it is either detected or forced to decloak depending on these conditions.
  • If the cloaked fleet is outside of your borders, you’ll be able to see it, with the cloaking visuals, but it won’t be decloaked.
  • If the cloaked fleet is inside of your borders, it will be forced to decloak.

If a cloaked fleet is inside another empire’s borders (and thus is not detected) when you declare war, it will not be forced to go MIA like normal.

Now to hand over to @PDS_Iggy to discuss the new civics!

For this story pack we were always on the lookout for flavorful and fun civics we could add to further explore the themes of First Contact. It was thanks to a helpful comment from one of our betas that Alfray and I started to investigate a generic Low-Tech civic. The aim was to add a civic that could be used in combination with other existing origins to get a pre-FTL feel.

After brainstorming and fusing ideas we came up with a low tech civic in which you start with reduced resources and a very limited jumpdrive.

1677516506661.png

Reaching for the stars, no matter what.

1677516524737.png

What is out there?

Exploration Vessels are early science ships and Engineering Vessels are simple construction ships.

Alfray and I also wanted to challenge ourselves since civics are often just identical for all government types, so we made a unique one for each government style. In the end we implemented multiple civics that should be able to facilitate many fantasies and builds.

1677488438750.png

The Stargazers starting info as well as the Jump Range

1677488453310.png

Look at them go!

And before you ask, you can put these jump drives on your other ships. It's even something you will have to you will have to do if you want to get our new achievement:

The Path Not Taken - Have 10 colonies without ever discovering Hyperdrives.

1677516413843.png

Déjà vu!

Finally, I'll leave you with an in-game gif of the MSI flagship activating its cloaking field.

Flagship Cloaking.gif

 
  • 117Love
  • 91Like
  • 5
  • 5
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
Regarding the worries about overpowered cloaking, I think that the devs took several measures that make this version of cloaking far more balanced and reasonable than most:

- No cloaked transports. Well, this was an obvious exploit waiting to happen, and I am glad they avoided it right out of the gate.

- No cloak while bombing a planet. We would all love to roleplay the Drukhari, but this poses similar problems to cloaked transports.

- Most importantly: no combat while cloaked. Which is my main gripe with those kinds of stealth systems. Cloaking will be all about getting an alpha strike and hitting your enemy's weak spots, rather than becoming invulnerable unless your enemy has detection. This makes dealing with cloaked ships much more doable, and it will also encourage you to spread your fleet: you might not have unlimited detection, but you can always have fast-reaction defensive fleets ready to pound weaker infiltration mono-fleets.

I know it is too early to tell if it will work, but I think it is a solid design. And hey, if espionage and Enigmatic Engineering are getting a buff, what is there not to love? :p
 
  • 7Like
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:
as tech grants sensor range and base intel level that you can't do anything about
Good point. I think it might be worth considering adding a +/- base intel for specific empires.
I.e. i have a modifier that makes everyone else's base intel on me -10 lower. To my understanding that is not how they built this system and it would probably require some more work by the custodians to implement that.
Would be cool, though.

Just imagine going full secrecy with subterfuge + enigmatic engineering + superior cloaking + high encryption + low base intel. You'd be basically invisible. Everyone would know you are there, but would have no idea how strong you really are.
I'd love that.
 
  • 4Like
  • 3
Reactions:
As much as I love the idea of cloaking, I'm 99% sure that cloaked Torp frigates/cruisers are going to be un-counterable meta with this DLC. Still intending to buy it but can't see how fleet combat will pan out any differently.

Battleships and Titans become sitting ducks. Is there a firing delay period after a fleet de-cloaks?
 
  • 2
Reactions:
As much as I love the idea of cloaking, I'm 99% sure that cloaked Torp frigates/cruisers are going to be un-counterable meta with this DLC. Still intending to buy it but can't see how fleet combat will pan out any differently.

Battleships and Titans become sitting ducks. Is there a firing delay period after a fleet de-cloaks?
Honestly it just seems like more of the rock-paper-scissors arrangement we have currently.
Corvettes kill torpedo ships.
Torpedo ships kill artillery.
Artillery kills carriers.
Carriers kill corvettes.

Just means that two specific things happen; carriers can't deal with stealth ships, and artillery deals 0 damage to torpedo ships instead of some damage.

You can also just build a detector and be fine. Cruisers will be nigh impossible to get to +9 cloaking and frigates will still not be very good.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
The cloaking mechanic is awesome, BUT, why did the PSI Ascension got another bonus? It is already the strongest of the three. I hope that future DLCs will bring more advantages to the other two paths.
 
  • 10
Reactions:
The cloaking mechanic is awesome, BUT, why did the PSI Ascension got another bonus? It is already the strongest of the three. I hope that future DLCs will bring more advantages to the other two paths.
Psi has the most flavor, but isn't really the strongest. More flavour for other paths would still be appreciated.
 
  • 19
Reactions:
Honestly it just seems like more of the rock-paper-scissors arrangement we have currently.
Corvettes kill torpedo ships.
Torpedo ships kill artillery.
Artillery kills carriers.
Carriers kill corvettes.

Just means that two specific things happen; carriers can't deal with stealth ships, and artillery deals 0 damage to torpedo ships instead of some damage.

You can also just build a detector and be fine. Cruisers will be nigh impossible to get to +9 cloaking and frigates will still not be very good.
The problem is that having a cloak advantage means your fleet is undetectable, and it has been confirmed that detection is static.

If the player gets an advantage over AI in cloaking, which is likely, then torp alpha strikes ruin everything bigger than a corvette, leaving small stuff to be mopped up. Maybe there's detail we're missing on fleet combat from cloaking but this could well see a return to a monofleet meta where the AI is even more of a walkover. Really hoping I'm wrong btw.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
One thing i haven't seen anyone mention with stealth is the ability to wage war against someone who has no direct connection to you with only non-friendly empires in between.
They couldn't even retaliate at all. I am so going to do that. All you need is better stealth and a bit of patience because of the longer routes.

Sure, you couldn't start occupation, but you don't always need to. I'm just going to abduct pops. And i am going to have a lot of fun doing that. Who cares about "winning" a war, when you still take all the spoils home?
 
  • 2Like
  • 1Haha
  • 1
Reactions:
Another thing i have not seen yet:
Does cloaking have a cooldown? Or can i snipe a starbase in the back and immediately re-cloak? If it has a cooldown, how long is that?

EDIT: apparently it has been stated there is a 120 day cooldown - regardless of tech level. the specific number of days might be adjusted before release.
Thanks, @Mcgan
 
Last edited:
  • 7
Reactions:
Regarding the worries about overpowered cloaking, I think that the devs took several measures that make this version of cloaking far more balanced and reasonable than most:

- No cloaked transports. Well, this was an obvious exploit waiting to happen, and I am glad they avoided it right out of the gate.

- No cloak while bombing a planet. We would all love to roleplay the Drukhari, but this poses similar problems to cloaked transports.

- Most importantly: no combat while cloaked. Which is my main gripe with those kinds of stealth systems. Cloaking will be all about getting an alpha strike and hitting your enemy's weak spots, rather than becoming invulnerable unless your enemy has detection. This makes dealing with cloaked ships much more doable, and it will also encourage you to spread your fleet: you might not have unlimited detection, but you can always have fast-reaction defensive fleets ready to pound weaker infiltration mono-fleets.

I know it is too early to tell if it will work, but I think it is a solid design. And hey, if espionage and Enigmatic Engineering are getting a buff, what is there not to love? :p

In a game where Alpha strike is 90% of the battle...being able to get easier alpha strikes unimpeded is the problem. It doesn't help that the Stellaris universe is designed for chokepoint utilization which is almost completely nullified by cloaking tech...and yeah you could either build weaker chokepoint bastions or build a support station nearby to give the chokepoint station visibility, but both of those solutions are imperfect in my opinion.

Yes, jump engines can also 'partially nullify chokepoints' but jump engines come with significant debuffs. Frankly if all cloak came with similar if not worse debuffs to weapons and drive abilities, shields and armor such that upon decloak the cloaked player's fleet suffered a 75% malice for 120 days....on all their systems and more importantly if cloaked ships were like 3X more expensive to build with increased maintenance costs (those cloaks in Star Trek were constantly leaky)...sure cool...let me be able to easily swat the ships down...make cloaking and decloaking for attack runs equally or more annoying for the cloaking player as it is for the uncloaked player to deal with playing stupid hide and seek.... That's my problem with cloaking mechanics in 4X games, it is theoretically way more fun to cloak than it is to not cloak, and it's way more annoying to be on the other side of a cloaking enemy than vice versa. If the two states were equally fun/annoying it'd be ok, because you could make arguments not to use cloaking tech at all...and arguments for it....but this isn't equally fun, one side clearly has an advantage and the other side just has more 'busy work'.

And give us passive cloak detection (even in Star Trek there were ways to 'detecting cloaked ships' without being able to target or know exactly where they were)....without having to spec into something special until late game techs....or give us more ascension perks. I don't want to feel like I HAVE TO TAKE Espionage pathways and Enigmatic Engineering just so I can see when I'm gonna get slapped. And if we're going to HAVE to take it then just give us the extra perk to facilitate that....rather than make us play worse versions of our playthroughs to accommodate some people's Romulan/Klingon/Hunt for the Red October fetish play....
 
Last edited:
  • 8
Reactions:
One thing i haven't seen anyone mention with stealth is the ability to wage war against someone who has no direct connection to you with only non-friendly empires in between.
They couldn't even retaliate at all. I am so going to do that. All you need is better stealth and a bit of patience because of the longer routes.

Sure, you couldn't start occupation, but you don't always need to. I'm just going to abduct pops. And i am going to have a lot of fun doing that. Who cares about "winning" a war, when you still take all the spoils home?

This is what I'm talking about....I dislike this. It completely makes an entire portion of the diplomatic interactions and war planning irrelevant...and it is very exploitable...
 
  • 11
Reactions:
Will there be any indicator on the galaxy map, either as standard or when we select a station/fleet, that shows the cloak detection level in each system? This would be very useful when moving our own fleets (assuming we have sufficient intel on our enemy) as well as seeing holes in our empire’s coverage.
 
  • 5
  • 4Like
Reactions:
This is what I'm talking about....I dislike this. It completely makes an entire portion of the diplomatic interactions and war planning irrelevant...and it is very exploitable...
Of all 4X cloak mechanics i have seen so far this is the least powerful in itself. No combat bonuses at all. It's mostly about picking engagements of your choice.
If cloak also has a cooldown like jump drives (though preferably a bit shorter), i really don't see how it will be the default go to for everyone.

Your fleets are a tad weaker, they are (mostly) limited to smaller ships and all research spent getting cloak is not getting your more firepower.

The only genuine benefit they provide is the strategic advantage, which can even be nullified with one strong detection array in your core sector to protect what's most important.
I don't think they'll have much more impact than jump drives to in late-game.

I think it's mostly larger empires that are more vulnerable to cloaking until they have the resources (and time) to plaster gateways everywhere to shorten their response time.
And i quite frankly welcome anything that is more of a threat to bigger targets.
 
  • 12
  • 2Like
Reactions: