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Stellaris Dev Diary #289 - Hide and Seek

A staple of sci-fi that has long been missing from Stellaris is the ability to have fleets and stations capable of being cloaked and hiding from enemy sensors. With the addition of Awareness and improvements to interactions with pre-FTL civilizations, we felt that First Contact was the right place to explore how cloaking could be added to the game in a meaningful way, tying into warfare, exploration and espionage.

When we set out to design the cloaking and counter-cloaking systems our goals were that:
  • Science ships should be able to equip cloaking devices to allow exploration of space regardless of if another empire has closed their borders to you.
  • Observation posts should be capable of being hidden from the pre-FTL civilizations they were observing.
  • Military vessels should be capable of cloaking, with limitations. Cloaking should be balanced such that it is better to cloak frigates or cruisers than battleships.
  • Cloaking should interact with the existing espionage system.

So how does this work in practice?

Cloaking Field Generators are a new type of ship component that is limited to one per ship and occupies either an Aux slot (for designable ships) or a special cloaking device slot (for undesignable ships e.g., science ships or observation posts). The first cloaking devices available can only be equipped on corvettes, frigates, science ships and observation posts. As technology improves so does the cloaking strength provided by the cloaking devices and the size of ship they are capable of cloaking.

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Basic Cloaking Field Generators unlock cloaking for corvettes, frigates and selected civilian ships.

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Advanced Cloaking Field Generators unlock cloaking for destroyers.

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Elite Cloaking Field Generators unlock cloaking for cruisers.

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Dark Matter Cloaking Field Generators unlock cloaking for battleships and titans.

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Psi-Phase Field Generators unlock cloaking for battleships and titans and offer the best cloaking strength in the game.

While cloaked, ships and fleets can ignore closed borders and can’t be detected by normal sensors. This can be useful for a variety of reasons such as having science ships explore and survey systems that might otherwise be blocked off, research anomalies or special projects inside the borders of your rivals or getting a well armed fleet situated to ambush an enemy starbase upon war declaration. Cloaked science ships will also have another trick up their sleeves, being able to perform covert reconnaissance on colonized planets to gather Intel on other empires and increasing the speed at which this Intel is gained. Finally, cloaked fleets and observation posts can’t be seen by pre-FTL civilizations, so using them will minimize your chances of accidentally increasing their Awareness.

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Performing reconnaissance on an enemy can provide a great deal of Intelligence.

Due to the power draw and manipulation of particle fields, cloaking imposes penalties on the shields of ships while cloaked, depending on the type of cloaking device equipped:
  • Ships equipped with a Basic, Advanced or Elite Cloaking Field Generator suffer from 100% Shield Nullification while cloaked.
  • Ships equipped with a Dark Matter Cloaking Field Generator have a reduced penalty of 50% Shield Nullification.
  • Ships equipped with a Psi-Phase Field Generator and any regular shields will suffer from 100% Shield Nullification while cloaked.
  • Ships equipped with a Psi-Phase Field Generator and psionic shields or barriers will not suffer from any Shield Nullification while cloaked.
It’s important to note here that as of 3.7 “Canis Minor”, both Shield Nullification and Armor Nullification have had a slight change. Previously, if a fleet suffered from 100% Shield Nullification (such as being in a pulsar system) and then the nullification was removed (say by leaving the system), their shields would instantly jump back up to full strength. This has been changed so that the fleet has to restore shields back to full capacity via their shield regeneration.

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Spreadsheets are an important part of our design workflow!

The cloaking strength of a fleet is determined by the ship in that fleet with the lowest possible cloaking strength. Thus, in order to be able to cloak, all ships in the fleet must be capable of cloaking. How well a fleet can cloak is described by the stability of the cloaking field of a fleet and can range from Non-Existent to Exceptional depending on the cloaking strength of the fleet.

This stability (or cloaking strength) factors into both how easily a starbase can detect or reveal the cloaked fleet (more on this later) and what penalties (if any) the fleet may suffer from.

It’s worth keeping in mind that, as the cloaking strength of a fleet is determined by the ship with the lowest cloaking strength in the fleet, a fleet of mixed battleships and corvettes will have a lower cloaking strength (and be more easily detected) than a fleet solely comprised of corvettes.

The highest level of cloaking strength and the corresponding cloaking field stability obtainable purely by ship components is 5 (Very High). In order to reach strength 6 or greater and thus the various grades of Exceptional stability, your fleets will require additional sources of cloaking strength, such as finishing Subterfuge traditions or hiding in a nebula.

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Cloaking Strength levels and penalties

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A UNE science ship makes use of a nebula to boost their cloaking strength.

In order to be detected or revealed a fleet needs to be within sensor range of an enemy starbase with a Detection Strength equal to or greater than the Cloaking Strength of the fleet. Detection Strength is normally gained by building Detection Array modules on a starbase, though certain rare technologies can unlock buildings or orders for science ships to further increase this.

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Oh, and we rearranged the starbase UI to list various previously hidden modifiers.

When a fleet is detected by a starbase, it is either detected or forced to decloak depending on these conditions.
  • If the cloaked fleet is outside of your borders, you’ll be able to see it, with the cloaking visuals, but it won’t be decloaked.
  • If the cloaked fleet is inside of your borders, it will be forced to decloak.

If a cloaked fleet is inside another empire’s borders (and thus is not detected) when you declare war, it will not be forced to go MIA like normal.

Now to hand over to @PDS_Iggy to discuss the new civics!

For this story pack we were always on the lookout for flavorful and fun civics we could add to further explore the themes of First Contact. It was thanks to a helpful comment from one of our betas that Alfray and I started to investigate a generic Low-Tech civic. The aim was to add a civic that could be used in combination with other existing origins to get a pre-FTL feel.

After brainstorming and fusing ideas we came up with a low tech civic in which you start with reduced resources and a very limited jumpdrive.

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Reaching for the stars, no matter what.

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What is out there?

Exploration Vessels are early science ships and Engineering Vessels are simple construction ships.

Alfray and I also wanted to challenge ourselves since civics are often just identical for all government types, so we made a unique one for each government style. In the end we implemented multiple civics that should be able to facilitate many fantasies and builds.

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The Stargazers starting info as well as the Jump Range

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Look at them go!

And before you ask, you can put these jump drives on your other ships. It's even something you will have to you will have to do if you want to get our new achievement:

The Path Not Taken - Have 10 colonies without ever discovering Hyperdrives.

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Déjà vu!

Finally, I'll leave you with an in-game gif of the MSI flagship activating its cloaking field.

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Paradox, please don't keep throwing things into the half-baked game and they keep piling up on the list of things to get overhauled.
I'm not going to be this negative, but the fact that there are already "Have the Custodians do it" notes on a DLC that hasn't been released yet is not encouraging. It makes it feel like the DLC wasn't ready to ship and is being pushed out because no other games are generating revenue right now.
 
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I'm not going to be this negative, but the fact that there are already "Have the Custodians do it" notes on a DLC that hasn't been released yet is not encouraging. It makes it feel like the DLC wasn't ready to ship and is being pushed out because no other games are generating revenue right now.
I don't want to be negative at all, I've loved what I've seen so far for this dlc. Damn, I can't wait to try the "Fear of the Dark" origin. But I cannot lie when I say that this matter does not greatly concern me based on my humble experience. You don't know how much I hope I'm wrong and that everything goes great, because if it's not like that, who knows to what extent the custodians can fix this "problem" or not.
 
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I just put this on Reddit (from watching today's First Contact video):
  • Enigmatic Engineering AP gives +2 Cloaking and +2 Encryption.
That is indeed nice to know that Enigmatic Engineering got a buff, but again, this extra cloaking isn't much good in the way of defense or obfuscation. Sure you can spy on other people better, but keeping a secret is just as impossible as before, best case scenario. I think the game in general, not just Enigmatic Engineering, sorely needs more effective ways to *defend yourself* from espionage and be an enigmatic empire, and it's disheartening that cloaking does not provide this niche. Other than hiding your defensive fleets which still show up in your relative fleet power calculations... which you still can't prevent other empires from finding out.
 
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Does that mean we can cloak a fleet and camp at the enemy's home system and once war starts reveal the fleet and destroy them? Or will the fleet have to emergency exit out of there once the war begins like usual?
 
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Dev stream is here:

I'm not going to be this negative, but the fact that there are already "Have the Custodians do it" notes on a DLC that hasn't been released yet is not encouraging. It makes it feel like the DLC wasn't ready to ship and is being pushed out because no other games are generating revenue right now.
Eh, I would expect most (if not all) DLCs to leave devs with at least a few cool ideas that were unreached stretch goals or ruled out-of-scope.



Some questions:
  • AI
    • Since cloaking doesn't work well with mixed fleets, is AI now capable of choosing specific ship sizes when assigning them to fleets?
    • Will AI attempt to sneak cloaked fleets into your systems before declaring war?
    • AI is currently prohibited from using Psionic Shields. Will this be changed so that they can use them with Psi-Phase Field Generators?
    • Cloaking techs don't seem to have higher ai_weight for empires with the new sneak_attacker behavior, should I make a bug report for that now or wait until First Contact actually releases? :p
      • (I might also expect, say, Honorable Warriors to be less interested in researching cloaking, and infiltrators to be interested in specifically unlocking cloaking 1 if they have observation stations to hide.)
  • Does starbase cloaking detection stack in systems where it overlaps?
  • Could civics that can't be randomly selected by AI empires get a line in their tooltips saying so? Possibly also if there's a reason why they shouldn't be force-spawned with it?
  • Will the volatility of fleet power calculations be addressed in this patch? If not, idle cloaked fleets getting 100% shield reduction is just going to exacerbate the issue.
  • Will losing an ideology war remove Eager Explorer civics and render all your ship designs invalid because your entire empire collectively forgets how to make subspace drives?
  • Does the existence of subspace drives mean it's possible for empires to discover non-expirimental subspace navigation now?
  • Mining and research stations don't seem to get cloaking, will primitives still notice those?
  • Is it possible for primitives to appear in binary or trinary systems now?
  • There are a few answers earlier in the thread saying that certain applications of cloaking (army transports, evasion bonuses) were deemed too powerful. Could they maybe be unlocked by a related ascension perk?

They are definitely something in between. Similar to rogue servitors and criminal syndicates it changes your gameplay a lot more than regular civics. Perhaps we will come up with some name for these types of not quite civic not quite origins.
Maybe Pathways, since they tend to be about the culture you developed between your origin and game start? Vectors or Angles could also fit for similar reasons.
Other options I can think of: Codes, Values, Intrinsivics if you like portmanteaus, Legacies.

One question: Can a cloaked fleet bombard a planet while cloaked? I'm seeing some interesting potential for shenanigans with barbaric despoilers or nihilistic aquisition... Invisible kidnappers might be fun and scary.
Can't bombard while cloaked. But I think you could, say, split the fleet and have half of it bombard while the other half waits in stealth to ambush any defensive response.
 
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I wish we could at least use Cloaking with the Nihilistic Acquisition. Otherwise, where is the fantasy of aliens coming to kidnap people without anyone being able to prove it?
 
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Oof, I had no idea. I liked building mixed fleets, too.

Q: Could it be possible to make cloaking of a fleet the average of the cloaking of the ships? That way a 8:4:2:1 mixed fleet still has some cloaking rather than just that of it's worst ship. Thanks

Edit: Also, how does this interact with first contact? If my cloaked science ship spots a foreign vessel, do we both still get first contact popups? Imo I always found it strange that both players got popups even if only one player sees the other
I Would love to habe partially cloacked fields - well aybe the custodians can upgrade the system later.
 
I wish we could at least use Cloaking with the Nihilistic Acquisition. Otherwise, where is the fantasy of aliens coming to kidnap people without anyone being able to prove it?
Pleasure seekers also should be able to abduct primitives, anally probing them, and return to their planet. And get scalable unity for this mission. 500 in early game and 5000 in late game.

But this work for modders!
 
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Actually, just in general is reporting bugs in currently unreleased content from previews and streams useful? I also noticed the auto-designer is still using autocannons for artillery (and torpedo) roles with all technology researched in the First Contact feature breakdown stream yesterday, for example.
 
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I have to say I really like these new civics, they strike a good balance between mechanics/playstyle and a little flavour - kind of what I'd hoped we'd get alongside knights of the toxic god origin, as some kind of chivalry civic.

Separately, there was a time when I tried to make a gateway origin (where you had a gateway in your home system, and could only traverse other gateways, not hyperlanes) but I noticed ships could not use bypasses - like gateways - without having the ability for the ship to use hyperplanes. Which seemed to be a technical limit at the time.

With these new drives, from this primitive civic, will we be able to also use bypasses? (E.g. if I take teachers of the shroud & build a shroud tunnel from my homeworld, will I be able to use it with the civic's starting drives?)

Also, are there any special interactions with the Scion origin? Or the remnants one? (Given one has you starting with an FE sugardaddy, the other has you relearning from your past).
 
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Cloaking is a game-changer. Take wormholes for instance. Usually I'd treat them as a choke-point and build starbase defences there with guns and missiles etc. Now with v3.7, I'd be tempted to put at least one detection array there, especially if there's more than one hyper-lane leading from that wormhole system.

I'm not complaining, just the opposite, I love that this game sometimes gives you hard choices. I also love turning Frigates into 'cloaked' first-strike submarines, complete with torpedoes.
It also fits with the strategies and ship limitations of Mass Effect, in that it's nearly impossible to detect a fleet going to a planet before they reach the planet, so they use flotillas of frigates as scouts in order to patrol and relay information back to larger fleets
 
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One cheesy thing
Cloaking is a game-changer. Take wormholes for instance. Usually I'd treat them as a choke-point and build starbase defences there with guns and missiles etc. Now with v3.7, I'd be tempted to put at least one detection array there, especially if there's more than one hyper-lane leading from that wormhole system.

I'm not complaining, just the opposite, I love that this game sometimes gives you hard choices. I also love turning Frigates into 'cloaked' first-strike submarines, complete with torpedoes.
Not sure if it will be a gamechanger. I like the feature but I am not sure if the war system allows for cloaked fleets being effective instead of just doomstacking everything.

A lot will depends on if cloaked fleets being affected by ftl inhibitors. If yes the real crazy strategies must wait till jump drives (with some exceptions for catapults and primitive jump drives). And by that point people (not AI of course) will have everything covered with max detection starbases.

Even if cloaking is effective, what effect would a cloaked fleet have on a war?
Sniping shipyards, delaying reinforcements and requiring the use if a defensive home fleet (afterburner cruiser carriers with energy weapons or something luke that)?
Punishing the enemy by armageddon bombarding his planets and cloaking away when defenders arrive (which wouldn't have a direct effect on the war though)?

PS: I really hope there is a mapmode for detection
 
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Oh my... if my Remnant Rogue Servitor empire takes Exploration Protocols... that means no Rapid Replicators... Increased difficulty, but sounds fun.
 
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Further thoughts on today's information release.

-The inevitable cloaking meta does raise the issues that orbital rings briefly put off. In that we don't really get enough starbases. It also has the other issue where with orbital rings giving us access to dedicated economic starbases and neve running into an issue of those not being where we want them, outside of habitat setups. With needing starbases to detect cloaked fleet and likely wanting a fortress starbase on your boarders and probably a more fragile sensor starbase behind those chokepoint fortress starbases. Well we're not going to have enough starbases, not unless the devs decide to run with some sort of fortified habitat that is a hybrid between starbases and habitats.

-As awesome as the new civics look. The fact that they are permanent and eat a civic slot is probably too brutal. An empire that chooses them is already getting hit with having 10 less pops and also having to play catch up on tech. It really hurts setups that want to run with locked civics that already exist. I'm a fan of the idea of making it a zero cost civic.

Could also consider the idea of giving empires that choose the civic an alternative tech to Galactic Administration, where the alternative tech gives them two civic slots. The upside to this route is that it shuts down any starting combos that the devs felts were too powerful for what is intented with these civics at start without having to hard code those combos out in a way that still leaves them open when someone finishes researching the Galactic Administration tech.
 
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I'm not going to be this negative, but the fact that there are already "Have the Custodians do it" notes on a DLC that hasn't been released yet is not encouraging. It makes it feel like the DLC wasn't ready to ship and is being pushed out because no other games are generating revenue right now.
Neither was Eladrins statement in a recent interview where when given the choice of 'fixing' something broken, or making something they find fun, they choose fun.
 
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How long does it take to produce 10 pops at the beginning of the game if you start with -10 pops?
I think the other 3 civics are not that bad, but I see Eager Explorers in the lowest tier in future civic tier lists.
ok I bite : clone-solieder origin
--> I win :cool:

------------------------

For most cases, I agree, it is totally roleplaying and / challenge, but that's ok. with me - not everything has to min/max optimally. (But I never play Stellaris to win anyway.)
 
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How do you figure the AI is going to get to +8? They rarely unlock the top tier, and they *never* specialize stations.
at this point youre basically just asking me if i'm the ai dev for stellaris
im not
if i was, i'd teach them to build missile turrets
you know perfectly well that you don't need to add a cloaking component to your ships to break the stellaris ai

edit: tbh they could probably just add +1 detection to AI empires with each difficulty level and it'd solve the problem
 
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