Tinto Flavour #22 - 27th of May 2025

[Sizvahstar]

Wait. I was under the impression that the term Hussar was created by the Hungarians specifically under the rule of King Mathias Corvinus, as he specifically chose to employ Serbs into this cavalry formation he devised.

I don't have the answer, but it sounds like you already gave it yourself. Corvinus employed Serbs, and they already had a name for themselves, so either they used it and he adopted it, or he decided to name them based on said name. Seems good to me.

 

[Alekslav123]

You couldn't think of a singular word for tribesman, did you?

plemenik/plemenici i would guess but i
genuinely dont think i remember ever hearing the term used irl. Most people would just say clan/clanovi plemena (member/members of a tribe)

 

[Sulphurologist]

As far as I can tell it's currently a mixture between a heightmap and the original system they had with map graphics corresponding to locations.

This was more apparent to me in the last visual we saw:

View attachment 1307749

View attachment 1307750

View attachment 1307746

Good catch, indeed a hybrid system.
I saw the ridges of the Chin Hills (Myanmar) and got hyped for 100% heightmap, but didn't look further.
It is still a decent trade off between realism and simplification. It's an 80-20 thing at this point.

I still think using IRL data would be prettier.
For 3D displacement using the square root of the elevation would render some really nice topography imo.

Oh well, more fun in modding for me

Linear scale elevation render	square root of elevation render

 

[jimfinbinlin]

@Pavía

Please, I am begging you (again). Implement and enforce a maximum text curve for the on-map text. A string should curve so that its arc occupies no greater than 1/4 of a circle (or perhaps 1/6 of a circle).

 

[Inzano]

You couldn't think of a singular word for tribesman, did you?

In Slovenain we have the word Plemenjaki but it is more used for breeding males of purebred dog breeds, which discouraged me from using it. xD

 

[Inzano]

The pop-types aren't localized by country played. Or at least we haven't seen any where that was the case.

I understand that they are not, but why shouldn't they be allowed to do so? It's not like it would make the game worse...
I don't understand this opposition to this idea. If it bothers anyone, I could have turned off native language localization anyway.

 

[Chanquis]

This is not the real life heightmap. This is still a highly stylised version, which overexaggerates a lot of the Southern Georgian / Armenian topography, and simplifies the shape of the Caucasus a lot. (And makes the shapes of the mountains too big/simple)

The actual DEM is a lot more high-res and diverse than this.
Hoping to see it drift more towards the IRL DEM (and add some snow to those mountaintops, too!)
Edit: that said, these screenshots are probably from a previous version, before they switched to the IRL DEM.
@Pavía can you elaborate whether or not these screenshots are from the new topographic style, or the old?
Edit2: thanks @Streamlet for pointing out that it's a hybrid system now.


Some quick blender renders for a similar angle:

Monochrome	With DEM coloration
View attachment 1307610	View attachment 1307609

Spoiler: East India Example

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/tinto-flavour-22-27th-of-may-2025.1760461/post-30401154

Linear scale elevation render	square root of elevation render

Thank you Sulphur for your insight and knowledge about the matter. As I wrote, "I supposed" it was the IRL because looked quite good to me, better than before Johan said they implemented it, but I am wrong and it's not the IRL as you point. Would be cool to see how the IRL looks now then.

 

[Sulphurologist]

Thank you Sulphur for your insight and knowledge about the matter. As I wrote, "I supposed" it was the IRL because looked quite good to me, better than before Johan said they implemented it, but I am wrong and it's not the IRL as you point. Would be cool to see how the IRL looks now then.

no you're right too, forgot to adust my phrasing in edit, it IS the new map!
Still not ás realistic as I would like it, but definitely an upgrade, including IRL elements

 

[ArVass]

I wonder what is the rule for which name is used for a country. Korea is Goryeo, so the name natives use. But Georgia or Japan use these names instead of Sakartvelo and Nihon?

It's not an issue of course but it's little confusing. I'd be fine with all the names coming from accepted modern English naming convention, like from Wikipedia names, but we have something more complex here.

As others said before, historiography treats the Kingdom of Goryeo and the Kingdom of Joseon as two separate countries, in contrast with European countries like Serbia which kept the same name and identity despite changing dynasties several times.

 

[Chanquis]

no you're right too, forgot to adust my phrasing in edit, it IS the new map!
Still not ás realistic as I would like it, but definitely an upgrade, including IRL elements

Ah good to know! I wasn't wrong that it looked better than before then but still wrong that was the pure IRL and just some mix that improves it. I edited the original message linking your insight so people have all your useful information.

 

[ArVass]

This is not the real life heightmap, although it now includes IRL elevation elements. This is still a highly stylised version, which overexaggerates a lot of the Southern Georgian / Armenian topography, and simplifies the shape of the Caucasus a lot. (And makes the shapes of the mountains too big/simple for my taste)

The actual DEM is a lot more high-res and diverse than this.
Hoping to see it drift more towards the IRL DEM (and add some snow to those mountaintops, too!)
Edit: that said, these screenshots are probably from a previous version, before they switched to the IRL DEM.
@Pavía can you elaborate whether or not these screenshots are from the new topographic style, or the old?
Edit2: thanks @Streamlet for pointing out that it's a hybrid system now.


Some quick blender renders for a similar angle:

Monochrome	With DEM coloration
View attachment 1307610	View attachment 1307609

Spoiler: East India Example

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/tinto-flavour-22-27th-of-may-2025.1760461/post-30401154

Linear scale elevation render	square root of elevation render

I almost always agree wifh you, however the hybrid system 100% looks better than just purely using the real life elevation would. It is infinitely more readable, and the semi-stylized mountains look stunning. All they need is, indeed, the snow cover.

 

[CorpusIurisCivilis]

I don't have the answer, but it sounds like you already gave it yourself. Corvinus employed Serbs, and they already had a name for themselves, so either they used it and he adopted it, or he decided to name them based on said name. Seems good to me.

No, because the word "Hussar" is etymologically Hungarian. If the Serbs had a word for it before, it wouldn't be that.

 

[koreanjesus218]

I don't have the answer, but it sounds like you already gave it yourself. Corvinus employed Serbs, and they already had a name for themselves, so either they used it and he adopted it, or he decided to name them based on said name. Seems good to me.

I tried to look into it, but found sort of conflicting sources. For example, some say they first appeared in the later 15th century, like:
https://archive.org/details/readerscompanion0000unse_x0k0/page/214/mode/2up

Other sources say they appeared before Matthias, serving in the Banate of Severin (a Hungarian march):
https://library.hungaricana.hu/hu/view/FoliaArchaeologica_54/?pg=300&layout=s&query=hussar

But I can't find any sources on them being referred to as Hussars (or anything similar) before being employed in Hungary. So I believe Hussars should only refer to those created from said Serbs and organised into proper units, and not the "predecessors".

EDIT: What I mean by "Hussars should only refer to those created from said Serbs and organised into proper units", I mean those created by Hungary, and those which were later inspired by them.

 

[Saphairen]

Regarding the Vlastele Krayishnik: I feel like it would make more sense to add a multiplier to the 'distance from capital' effect on control, rather than a flat control loss. This further incentivizes tall/defensive play, while a flat malus doesn't.

 

[Sulphurologist]

I almost always agree wifh you, however the hybrid system 100% looks better than just purely using the real life elevation would. It is infinitely more readable, and the semi-stylized mountains look stunning. All they need is, indeed, the snow cover.

Sure, to each their own! Personally I'm not for a stylised diorama effect for the landscape, I think it doesn't give a real sense of scale.
But again, at this point it's arguing over details. The current version is definitely functional in representing the impassables as stylised mountains, while presenting IRL DEM in the lower topography for some more grit.

At this zoom level I'd love to see the nitty gritty detail of the topography everywhere though, which would really give you a sense of how formidable and expansive your growing empire really is. Considering readability: I really don't agree the IRL DEM is inherently inferior, especially when applying the square root to the DEM when visualising it. Imperator had a very readable map.

I'm curious to see how places like Scotland and Scandinaia end up looking with the current map, because I have the feeling the stylised peaky impassables will still look a bit out of place for these glacially scoured landscapes.

 

[EneaBako]

There ya go @EneaBako , knock yourself out.

Good now we have a historical approach although i dont think it will turn into the many fragmented provinces like it was originally after the event of Stefan death. Or will it?

 

[Clangus]

release date?

 

[EneaBako]

@Pavía Thank you on considering the Stefan Dushan death in 1355 if you allow me to suggest a proposal “The Shattering of the Serbian Crown” System (Post-1355)

Trigger:

Death of Stefan Dudhan (1355) triggers the “Curse of Serbia” disaster (already in-game).

If Serbia's Legitimacy < 70, Stability < 2, or Rebel Factions > 40% progress, a “Crisis of Succession” event fires.

Key Event:


Crisis of Succession
This fires a new mechanic that replaces generic rebels with historically grounded separatist factions, including:

Region	Tag Spawned	Culture	Outcome
Zeta / Ulcinj / Shkodër	Balšić/Zeta	Mixed	New country tag forms or can be supported by player
Dukagjin / Tropojë	Dukagjini	Albanian	Spawns nationalist rebels, can declare independence
Lezhë / Durrës	Zaharia or League of Lezhë	Albanian	Optional emergence
Braničevo / Morava	Serbian Pretenders	Serbian	Classic succession war
Kosovo	Independent or contested	Mixed	Strong rebel province to simulate chaos

Optional Flavor:

Add missions for Serbia to re-unify lost territories if it survives.
Add Albanian missions for League of Lezhë, anti-Ottoman alliances, or Venetian interactions.


This system doesn’t seek to break Serbia for fun- it reflects the historical fact that after 1355, the empire fragmented and nobles like the Balshaj Dukagjini ect ruled independently. The current disaster only causes unrest, but not fragmentation. I propose a system where, if Serbia is weak enough, real noble factions emerge. This way, the AI still has a chance to hold it together, but the player has real agency especially in Albania and Montenegro later on to forge their own path. This isnt ahistorical. This is history.

@Pls fix HRE @wilhelmwied @Qyubid @Inzano @ArVass What do you think? Will this lead to a historical fragmentation?

 

[gLo1NN]

Serbia sided with the Ottomans against Timur. Will we see such an event?

 

[EneaBako]

Serbia sided with the Ottomans against Timur. Will we see such an event?

This is for the jokes so please take it with a bit of salt.