Tinto Talks #66 - 4th of June 2025

[CrabHelmet]

Instantly exchanging piety for stability or manpower was and remains a bad mechanic. That's just piety mana. High piety should increase the rate at which stability ticks up, but it shouldn't be an expendable resource. Piety directly feeding into manpower is even worse - what does this even represent? Praying soldiers into existence?

 

[Soselo]

All characters are considered adults at 16 years old, and they can marry at 21 years old. Take into account that this is because of compliance with PEGI and other equivalent rules.

Why not allow marriage at 18?

 

[Greater Idahoan]

Can you set out on or call for Jihads?

Better yet, can we make it easier to fight wars, easier to convert or conquer others, and impossible to end slavery? Gotta be historically accurate lol

 

[Greater Idahoan]

Bringing back the instant manpower buttons was a bad call. Overall a really disappointing dev diary when compared the the 4 Christian dev diaries.

Also is druze not considered part of the Islamic group? I can see why it wouldn't but am curious to how it's defined.

This is probably because it's really hard to add depth to Islam and make it fun without throwing one branch or another into a tizzy. That said, I also wish it was more interesting in some way, but I have no idea how to do that since I'm not an expert in EU games or how they would represent Islam

 

[Def frenchy kaiser]

I've noticed that recent dev diaries and map feedbacks have been rather underwhelming if not completly disapointing. Feels like development is being rushed so that the game can have a release date for late 2025.

Also probably to "leave room" for a future Gazillion DLCs to be released to "complete" the game. Europe seems to have the most interesting content, the rest only small crumbs. Thought eurocentrism was put aside for this opus but it seems that at the end, it is very present and will never truly go away,

 

[Greater Idahoan]

The precepts of sharia are one thing, the laxness of their application in society (especially before modern times) is totally another. I remember reading that Europeans described Hormuz as a place where drinking and other excesses were common.

That's interesting. Most societies became less religious over time, at least with traditional organized religions. I was under the impression that Muslims simply remained religious, not that they became more devout

 

[Otto_III]

Seems like the Tolerance of Heathens modifier should be much lower for Islam. In the Orthodoxy post they had a -7 modifier to tolerance of Heathens. Islam should at least be the same if not worse.

 

[Greater Idahoan]

How are multiple spouses represented in the UI? Are there any historical examples of female rulers with multiple spouses in the muslim world? I don't know many female Muslim rulers in the first place (Shajar al-Durr) and don't know any with multiple husbands.

Bro is asking the wrong civilization

 

[Little King AB]

Will wahhabi not be a school for 300+ years since Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab was born in the 1700s? Unless it's a catch all term for strict athari "taymiyyan" thought

 

[Greater Idahoan]

Seems like the Tolerance of Heathens modifier should be much lower for Islam. In the Orthodoxy post they had a -7 modifier to tolerance of Heathens. Islam should at least be the same if not worse.

Weren't Muslim societies somewhat tolerant at this time? I can think of Christians or Jews living in the various empires of the era, while in the modern day they're not tolerated at all. That is to say, it makes sense to me that Islam has some tolerance during this timeframe

 

[Enku7071]

Technically indeed Jafari are Twelver, but because I wanted to keep tiering equivalent between Sunni and Shia schools as not to create confusion or UI difficulties it may be best to split it this way.

Indeed now looking at this image:

I believe the best thing to do with the "School of Theology" selection would be to completely remove Schools of Jurisprudence from there. Instead have only Schools of Theology which can be categorized as follows allowed by your selection of School of Jurisprudence in Shariah:

Available for Sunni:

Ash'arī
Māturīdī
Aṯarī
Mu'tazilī
Wahhābī

Available for Shia:

Ismai'ili: Nizari, Musta'li
Ja'fari: Usuli, Akhbari, Shayki
Zaydi: Batri, Jarudi

Available for Ibadi:

Wahbi, Azzabas, and Nukkari

Available for Heterodox:

Alevi, 'Alawi and Din-i Ilahi should be represented here instead only available for those following Heterodox Islam Sect.

So one would have their sect of Islam, which would allow them a selection of Schools of Jurisprudence from Shariah panel. Once that is chosen, they can choose a School of Theology which would be allowed based on their Sect and School of Jurisprudence.

I was just completely flabbergasted to see Schools of Jurisprudence and Schools of Theology conflated like that with each other and Islamic orders. Which is so puzzling when the game already represents Schools of Jurisprudence under Shariah selection as per Laws (which is how it should be and is an accurate representation).

I'd suggest you make this into a separate thread for better visibility.

 

[Enku7071]

Will wahhabi not be a school for 300+ years since Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab was born in the 1700s? Unless it's a catch all term for strict athari "taymiyyan" thought

I mean... 1700s are included in the game scope, I guess it'll not be there at game start or sth.

 

[Greater Idahoan]

It's crusading time

Time to rp as the ERE and reconquer and reconvert the Near East

 

[nyetflix2]

That's interesting. Most societies became less religious over time, at least with traditional organized religions. I was under the impression that Muslims simply remained religious, not that they became more devout

definitely a complicated topic but look into the salafi movement, the aftermath of the failure of Arab socialism/pan-Arabism and the growth of a more religiously-oriented political scene/civil society, the muslim brotherhood and the outcome of the nahda

I don't know if we can say muslims have become more religious per se as I think most would disagree, but I would venture the scope and reach of religion in muslim societies has expanded through urbanization, modern education, globalization etc

And I don't think this is really unique to muslim societies actually, religiosity might be declining in western Europe and the anglosphere but not so much in Latin America, sub-saharan Africa, India, southeast Asia etc

 

[SYAKURAPUHVAN]

I have a few questions regarding this post
1. Will the food RGO demands declined during Ramadan and how's the Ramadan affect the army qualities (morale,etc) and the supply intake
2. How the pork represented in Islam and judaism in the food RGO
3. Could you destroy holy site like for example Kaaba and rebuild it
4. Will tomb of "holy peoples" like sufi scholars represented as buildings/holy site also what will be the "ziaraa" (visiting grave and praying there) represented for certain Islamic sects
5. How's the dhimmi mechanics work?

 

[Atromb]

Seems like the Tolerance of Heathens modifier should be much lower for Islam. In the Orthodoxy post they had a -7 modifier to tolerance of Heathens. Islam should at least be the same if not worse.

No, for the time period it should be christianity which should have the worse tolerance of both heathen and heretics in the game.

 

[Ru8bin]

@Pavía Will this extra manpower come from population or out of thin air?

 

[Lebyodka]

some unique laws and policies:

Why does the Tax Farming Policy under the Iqta Law shift the country towards capital economy, when, in fact, as it's similar enough (obviously, not exactly equal) to the feudal system, it should move it towards traditional economy?

 

[pheonicia]

That's interesting. Most societies became less religious over time, at least with traditional organized religions. I was under the impression that Muslims simply remained religious, not that they became more devout

Something being banned doesn't mean people don't do it.

 

[Sibunaytlas]

Alevism under Shia is just flat out wrong, it is too heterodox to be considered neither Sunni or Ibadi, let alone Shia. Which is rather apparent from the practices themselves. There's no salah, no mosques, ancestor veneration is widespread, it's the spitting image of a populace trying to hold onto their shamanistic folk beliefs vehemently. I believe Din-i Ilahi, Alevism and Alawism are better off being classified under a 'Heterodox' umbrella.