Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #68 - Patch 1.1 Changelog (part 4)

[Lukevan16]

I like the Dev diary, and am excited to try it out.
A small suggestion if you’re already changing some town names. “Da Aar” in Cape Colony should actually be “De Aar.”

Also, is there anyway you could add some event that moves post-Confederation Canada’s capital to Bytown, which is then renamed “Ottawa?” It’s weird to keep seeing a Canadian state centred in Ft Douglas.

 

[Drakken]

Well, adults aren't.

Currently, all my heirs in monarchies are bald.
And as they will at least gain the throne in 1.1, they should get some hairs too.

Babies usually aren't dressed in full regalia with monocles, too.

 

[EsenTaishi]

Great changes.

sone suggestions to help us modders.

1. Let us sort along more dimensions, specifically:

-goods prices to access goods so that market tooltip can be modded to show goods with high price instead of balance (useless in late game)

- state infrastructure balance, essential when

2. One I would personally love: allow gathering “important alerts” under a custom alert widget (my dream is to build a “multiple current situations” mod). Right now alerts groups can only happen under the current situation from my reading of the code.

thanks and keep up the amazing job!

also, any news on the M1 native version of the game?

 

[Mucsaccso]

Yes, for now. We considered addressing it in the short-term by changing the way some decentralized nations were laid out at the start of the game, but it would be ahistorical and not a sustainable / generic solution. Instead we have been working on an improved colonization mechanic that takes Claims into account to address this, which will be coming in a later patch.

It's also ahistorical what happens in North America. I think that would be a rational tradeoff to rearrange the decentralized nations that usually don't have any impact on the grand scheme of history, so on the other hand, you'd get the historical borders of the USA, one of the most important countries in the game.
It's ahistorical either way, but the significance of the 2 scenarios are wildly different.

 

[Bread]

The issue is that if buildings only ever raised wages when there was a labor shortage for the jobs they're hiring for, you would see wage rates sit just above subsistence level until you put every single one of your peasants to work in the factories, and then suddenly all buildings in the state would start to compete with each other for workers until their wages matched their productivity and no profit is gained at all. It's not a good experience for the player and feels very wrong (believe me, it is how it used to work earlier in development).

With the system tuned such that very profitable buildings will raise wages at least up to some threshold - we've chosen the radicalization threshold, the point where pops feel like they'd rather fight and die than accept their situation - there's a more gradual increase in wages as the productive workforce increases, which makes more sense when you see it in action. You will still see radicalization in the buildings whose margins are more pressed, or even failing, and there are many other sources of radicalism to create the effect you're after.

Couldn't this be alleviated through changing/expanding the qualifications system though? So that the pools for certain jobs are smaller, allowing more granularity in wage changes? Non-game designer spitballing I admit.
Though I could be getting too hung-up on not having a good enough head-canon of what's going on with these wage increases, it is just really taking me out of it (as well as probably more importantly preventing the simulation of historically very profitable but also very exploitative industries)

 

[Chief of Staff]

.. one more time?

The lack of ability to react to your post made me sad. <:-( xD

 

[johnty5]

One interesting potential solution here; what if wage levels could somehow more incrementally linked to the trade union IG's power vs the capitalist IG power? If trade unions are powerful or in government, it would make sense that wages in the country would go up if unions are powerful enough for major strikes and/or implementing wage laws. On the other hand, if capitalists are powerful and in control, wages should probably decrease unless there are legal protections, which would likely cause radicalism.

I still think this sounds like a perspective that assumes Trade Unions' power comes from their ability to participate in or influence government to create better wages and conditions through legislation. That's one part of it - but there needs to be another, entirely non-government/legislative aspect to it of worker collective action forcing higher wages on a company-by-company or factory-by-factory basis.

Maybe I'm just coming at this from a UK-centric point of view. The UK had very powerful Trade Unions, but no minimum wage until 1997 - in large part because it was opposed by the Trade Union movement who felt that shifting the responsibility for rising wages onto politics and legislation would undermine workplace-level collective action and lead to worse outcomes overall.

EDIT:

For clarity, I'm not saying that Trade Unions in the game should oppose the minimum wage or anything like that. I'm simply saying that modelling trade unions simply as a lobby group for the minimum wage and various laws that improve worker conditions would be a very narrow in-game modelling of their real-life impact.

 

[toxicgrunt]

Man did you guys really have to fix the players ability to teleport generals before you guys did a passthrough and large fixing of the war system?

I assume you guys haven’t completely revamped military this patch to allow, I don’t know, garrisoning an area the military wasn’t directly trained in. That means if youre colony hoping in west Africa or island hoping the pacific or doing any war with closing front etc etc, our troops will always teleport home incoherently and now we don’t have a cheeky little fix to combat that? Kinda weird bros ngl

 

[TheIronRelic]

Can you still take inactive treaty ports from Great powers? If not 1.1 just made the Treaty Port achievement as Qing insanely tough.

 

[PedroLuiz]

Which isn’t really something you'll see with wages pegged to minimum acceptable. That caps out at 15 for poor strata with era 5 social tech and 100% literacy.

What is the peak pop growth anyway?

 

[PedroLuiz]

Well no, i hate it.

What I actually want is to see players become accustomed to the idea that industrial economies mean not having 1 to 1 supply/demand curves, not barely scraping by but actual abundance.

And running through possibilities, flat preset wages were the best way to make players swallow the pill that they needed to overproduce, up later production methods noticeably and make wages flat, this means if you want to improve peoples standards of living you really need to be producing 10x what you were at game start per capita. Not just trying to hit 1 to 1s, but actually trying to flood the market and lower prices.

I want to see an overproduction crisis.

Cool theory, but does really life backs that up?

 

[PedroLuiz]

Aren't we all playing capitalist, laissez-faire bourgeoisie countries?

They poorer and more obedient our cheap workers are, the happier we masters are. If we could pay them with sacks of potatos, we would.

There are no potatoes on earth, only grain and liquor

 

[Drakken]

Faster released than I thought, just one content for your to consider. I noticed some mod change American "petite bourgeios" into "middle class" which removed reactionary trait for U.S middle class and add republican trait to make it more historical accurate. Would you consider that?

Countries definitely need more localized flavour for their respective IGs. I take this is something for later free patches.

 

[TheIronRelic]

Babies are bald…some of you guys really need to get out more.

I am pretty sure this is only true for white people.

Maybe just have European heirs be bald and everyone else has hair.

 

[Richard Dolder]

Cool theory, but does really life backs that up?

I mean players might still obsess over hitting 1 to 1 supply/demand ratios, but hopefully the stagnant SoL and line not going up will discourage them.
And if that's the case i'm wrong and forever destined to have elastic prices if we want any reasonable market simulation.

 

[tyiz]

1. Great Qing should be freedom of conscience at start about be legacy slavery, Great Qing hasn't abolished their slave servant until 1910. What's more, Great Qing should be much weaker and harder to modernize. This is unbelievable Qing have the ability to mobilize battalion like a modern country. Eastern empire actually ruled their country in totally different logic with western country, it's unthinkable for Qing to build "university" on their game before they make decision to westernize. Because that would be rebellion to the traditional "KEJU" system. Also Qing totally have no interest to industrialize before they realize they need to innovation. And the progress stuck in Chinese empire and low government efficiency now have no representation in the game.

2. Europe country and united states should have more difference between countries to make more accurate to play different country. Britain should have intelligent group who is neutral attitude between monarchy and republic but more enlighten landowner and church, now Tory party have exactly same ideology with Bonapartist. Meanwhile it's hard to believe U.S petite Bourgeois opposed Republic and more favor to Monarchy and Theocracy.

3. I hope there will be more useful if I have more democratic laws, now democratic laws only lost authority if I enact universal suffrage. The change on content about legitimacy seems great on this issue.

4. I hope the leader of interest group have less influence for interest group. Now it's not plausible one interest group is super satisfied now and suddenly super radical socialist only because they change a leader and ignored that country is already super care about their interest on welfare or freedom of speech. What's more, I think there should be some more mechanic to permanent change interest group ideology. Like if country stay democratic and generous for workers, trade union should not believe communist or other radical belief. And the feminist law now have bug, after let trade union or intellegience accept feminist, it/s actually not working. They still hate female leader after feminist leader leave.

5. I totally agree with the strengthen of the discrimination law, but meanwhile, I hope the liberal citizen ship policy could have less penalty for authority. I think that cause a liberal society hard to gain consumption tax which propably should be announced by adminstration ability instead of authority.

6. Hope to strengthen private school and public school or weaken church school, It's hard to believe church school system have same innovation and education access when they teach student more to believe god blindly instead of scientific method

7. Hope path to socialism and path to fascism could be reblanced. Now it's super hard to stay democratic even you actually already satisfied your citizens, they still became radicalized for simply a leader changing and will forever became more radical to your country.

8. Since the change of democratic laws and more impact on voting, Maybe government form could also impact these? Parliament republic and President republic might more count on vote if they're democratic I think.

9. I think the political system is confusing now because now it had very vague definition of "government" and "opposition" concept, maybe the final structure of the game is to draw detail representation of parliament for democratic country if it's possible. For 1.10, I think maybe they can make a concept of "loyal opposition". Or maybe paradox define "government" itself is a coalition between all accept parliament member ( but to be honest, that definition is really awful) I think as long as paradox doesn't make a change to represent "parliament system", because under parliament system, opposition is also on parliament. Because liberal democratic system have total different ruling logic than Autocracy system, now they're sharing same system to represent their ruling situation. For example, it;s hard to imagine a "legitimate government" have same meaning under Democratic system and Autocracy system. But now they have same effect. What's more, I hope Paradox could provide more authority for democratic government if they're legitimate. Maybe in Future, we can see the dictatorship system worked total different with democratic political structure.

10. Hope for some strengthen to regular troops whether what the military law is. It's hard to believe conscription army could have same ability with regular armies. And I think the advantage for high technology army method should be strengthens. Irregular troops in history always have low morale to fight, skirmish army should always could easily against irregular troops. Same for Mechanic army also should easily defeated line infantry.
At the end of the day, I think Victoria 3 has big big potential, and might have the most mature economic system on historical strategic game until now. But I think more detailed system reformed and focus on historical accuracy and nation differences will make this game wonderful, or maybe one of the greatest historical strategic on this century. Hope for the best


PS: I noticed the rubber now have new PM for increasing their production. I think the oil in China seems too much according to historical area. Maybe consider reduced some oil area for China? I guess. What's more, I begin to hope the railway transport for mines or plantation could increase the production, and other automation PM on industrial method also could increase production for one reason: Quality. It's always faster and safer to use automatic PM in factory, and less plantation will be damaged on transport process if use railway transport. Hope you could consider about it.

PS2: Please add more complex and more technology tree and tried to limit eastern country to study western industrialization tech before they make westernize reform or could research how much technology depending on their reform faction's strength. For more technologies reason, I just simply find that protected speech has no use at the end of the game era because there are no use of technology spreading.

ps3:I noticed some mod change American "petite bourgeios" into "middle class" which removed reactionary trait for U.S middle class and add republican trait to make it more historical accurate. Would you consider that?

 

[McSaucy4418]

Agreed that it’s annoying to never see the AI colonize there, but I’d be a little concerned about AI Australia colonizing lots of stuff in Indonesia if this change were made.

I’ve been wondering if there should be another colonization law, which only allows colonization of bordering states. Would be nice in this case, as well as for the US, Canada, Russia, Japan, and a few other places as well.

A continental or bordering states or (American centric warning) manifest destiny colonization law seems like a very good idea. Basically limiting colonization to adjacent states on the continent of the capital.

 

[Soranya]

Please, my reactionary Czarist autocratic tendencies can only get so excited!

15 is allready pretty high though...
I'd say "not starving" would be agood target.

 

[bitmapmedivh]

Yes, for now. We considered addressing it in the short-term by changing the way some decentralized nations were laid out at the start of the game, but it would be ahistorical and not a sustainable / generic solution. Instead we have been working on an improved colonization mechanic that takes Claims into account to address this, which will be coming in a later patch.

Wait wait wait. So in a not so distant future we'll be able to say, mod in a Journal Entry that triggers when certain techs are unlocked, and have that unlock a decision for any European nation that holds territory in Africa that will give them claims on states there based on certain criteria, AND have the AI take those claims into account when colonizing?

 

[Soranya]

Man did you guys really have to fix the players ability to teleport generals before you guys did a passthrough and large fixing of the war system?

I assume you guys haven’t completely revamped military this patch to allow, I don’t know, garrisoning an area the military wasn’t directly trained in. That means if your colony hoping in west Africa or island hoping the pacific or doing any war with closing front etc etc, our troops will always teleport home incoherently and now we don’t have a cheeky little fix to combat that? Kinda weird bros ngl

This will probably be the reason why i will do a pass on this patch. too anoying otherwise (or i will make a mod reducing travel times to near 0...)