Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #74 - UX Improvements

[adil3tr]

I think the visual method should show the occupations in each entry from lowest to highest strata. And it would be really helpful if the outliner showed IG ideology.

 

[Skyfus]

Finally, I can rebind TAB to do the exact same thing as it already did in CK3 instead of one of the most defunct navigation tools I've seen in a game

 

[DanielPrates]

View attachment 945742
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"Oh yes I did!"
"Oh no you didn't!"

 

[Oglesby]

Thanks for the reply

The main reason is "Players more often than you think miss that some buttons are buttons". We saw this time and time again when doing user research, both from new players and experienced PDS veterans. The arrow navigation buttons solved most of those problems.

I guess I tend to fall the other way. I find myself clicking on some of the sub-panels thinking it should do something only to then look closer and see that there is a small arrow button in the corner. Or get frustrated as I have to lock the tooltip, hope I don't come close to anything else that will make a new tooltip, move to a "Go to Details screen" button and click it instead of just clicking the thing that caused the tooltip to appear.

In addition to this, for the Construction Map Interaction the reason was two-fold:
1) We wanted to be able to both queue a construction and navigate to the details panel for that Building, not just queue
2) We wanted to make sure that it was easy to move your mouse cursor into the tooltip if you wanted to dig deeper into it, which a button for the entire list item made much harder to get right

I guess I was meaning that you would leave the "Bohemia" button that would take you to the "Iron Mines in Bohemia" details panel but the rest of the row would be add x Iron Mines to the build queue action.

For the Construction Widget in the Outliner, it was also two-fold
1) We wanted to be able to Pause/Unpause the queue from the Outliner, and to be able to navigate to the Construction panel
2) We wanted it to align neatly with the rest of the Outliner
However, after looking at the result of this, and listening to the feedback we got from internal testing and the Open Beta, this will be changed in the upcoming release.

I have been reserving outliner for just the group of things that can be added to the right via the outliner panel. Is it used for anything anchored to the right side? (want to know so I can better communicate in later posts).

How does one pause/unpause from the construction widget? I have clicked all over it and cannot find anything. The only action that I get is when I click the navigation arrow. I like the look of the construction widget, it shows the total points and the number of building in each queue. If I were to change anything about the information presented I would have the number of buildings be split between active and pending. Knowing I have 14 things in the queue means different things at different times. Knowing I have 2+12 or 12+2 means more (where that is active+pending). The latter case means I need to add more things to the queue. I also think clicking on the widget should go to the queue panel instead of the little arrow.

Oh and I understand that there are a lot of places that the "Arrow" navigation button is useful and required but it feels like since it exists it gets used in places that a different interaction would provide a better 'work flow'.

 

[DarkSpiryt]

Victoria 3 is math heavy game. From 600h in game i used 100h for math only. What i would like to see in construction interaction is:
-how much input and output per 1 building ( PM x throughput) i have, or
-how many buildings i need to reach neutral price of good (+0%), including buildings in queue,
-if buildings are fully stuffed,
-interactive infrastructure - number i need is how much infra left including buildings in queue so i dont need to calculate if i have enough infra,
-button to extend infrastructure just next to infra lvl (simple + will be ok but will be great if this + would work with alt to shift infra to top of the queue),

Right now my gameplay loop looks like this:
Check market for overpriced goods -> go to designated province -> check peasants -> calculate how much 1 building produce -> calculate how many i need to reach neutral price lvl -> check if i have enough infra -> check if any other buildings in queue will reduce infra lvl in province -> queue infra -> queue buildings -> check how much input i need to provide -> repeat process from "go to designated province".
Thats a lot of clicks. Now what it should look like:
Quick look on outliner to check price lvl -> go to building lens -> choose product -> sort province by building lvl -> look on peasants -> hover mouse over + button -> click how many times tooltip suggest -> click + button next to infra to fix infra lvl -> go to next input product lens
This would reduce time spent on loop at least 2 times and even more in late game. With those changes to UI, having 5k construction points wouldnt be a chore.

 

[amocpower]

IS there a plan to change some icons? For examlpe "severe Malaria" and "Malaria" have same icon or Power plant PM have same icon. You can´t see any visual difference

 

[Cagallo]

Victoria 3 is math heavy game. From 600h in game i used 100h for math only. What i would like to see in construction interaction is:
-how much input and output per 1 building ( PM x throughput) i have, or
-how many buildings i need to reach neutral price of good (+0%), including buildings in queue,
-if buildings are fully stuffed,
-interactive infrastructure - number i need is how much infra left including buildings in queue so i dont need to calculate if i have enough infra,
-button to extend infrastructure just next to infra lvl (simple + will be ok but will be great if this + would work with alt to shift infra to top of the queue),

Right now my gameplay loop looks like this:
Check market for overpriced goods -> go to designated province -> check peasants -> calculate how much 1 building produce -> calculate how many i need to reach neutral price lvl -> check if i have enough infra -> check if any other buildings in queue will reduce infra lvl in province -> queue infra -> queue buildings -> check how much input i need to provide -> repeat process from "go to designated province".
Thats a lot of clicks. Now what it should look like:
Quick look on outliner to check price lvl -> go to building lens -> choose product -> sort province by building lvl -> look on peasants -> hover mouse over + button -> click how many times tooltip suggest -> click + button next to infra to fix infra lvl -> go to next input product lens
This would reduce time spent on loop at least 2 times and even more in late game. With those changes to UI, having 5k construction points wouldnt be a chore.

For me, this approach for the UI is not the correct because it would incentivise just to try to always move prices to 0% variation from an artificial base. There is no really overpriced or underpriced goods, because it depends on whether people/industries can afford it or not. Sometimes a good at -15% price can be counterproductive, sometimes not.

 

[Partiya_Lenina]

Hello, I know that this isn't strictly related to this specific Dev Diary but I wanted to voice my opinion on something:
In the Beta I have experimented a bit with a music mod I've had plans for since before Vicky 3 was even announced, and I am saddened to see upon messing about with the files that the triggers allowed in the script don't seem to work with the "is_valid" section when you are adding a new song into the game. Either that, I am missing something, or the system is very unintuitive. I have songs that shouldn't be playing under conditions of warfare or before a certain date playing anyways, and other songs whose only requirement is that the person is playing Great Britain refusing to play at all.
If it is possible that this is an issue with the game itself, I'd like to have that confirmed, and would humbly ask that somebody works that into the 1.2 patch when it comes out in full.

 

[Ronin Szaky]

Map Modes​

We have added three new Map Modes (Literacy, Population and Infamy), and given the transition between two Map Modes a configurable fade in/out to make it smoother. One of the first mods I personally subscribed to at release was Practical Heatmaps by Ronin Szaky, and an ever-so-slightly tweaked version made its way into the base game in 1.2.

I am so glad my tiny mod could inspire positive change and help you and your team's work!

Amazing changes all around and I really appreciate the update as it will make my mod playset so much more manageable.

 

[DarkSpiryt]

For me, this approach for the UI is not the correct because it would incentivise just to try to always move prices to 0% variation from an artificial base. There is no really overpriced or underpriced goods, because it depends on whether people/industries can afford it or not. Sometimes a good at -15% price can be counterproductive, sometimes not.

Incentivising that you should meet demand of your people is bad? So its actualy good if some poor kid miss his dinner? You know what +10% price means? It means that someone will go home without geting this item because there are more people than actual products. There are no stockpiles in this game. I am not counting cash reserve as stockpile because if you have small deficit in input (+5% iron) and bigger deficit in output (+10% tools) you actualy making end product out of thin air without losing cash reservs.
The biggest gameplay loop is about meeting demand, so if i see blue bar and +1% in price i feel that someone is still sad in my country and i need to fix that state.
I am not recommending to delete productivity, you can still go under 0.
In my Japanese campaign even with all PM techs in 1890 i am only overproducing chairs and clothes. I still can't reach neutral price lvl for all goods.

 

[Notme1]

Victoria 3 is math heavy game. From 600h in game i used 100h for math only. What i would like to see in construction interaction is:
-how much input and output per 1 building ( PM x throughput) i have, or
-how many buildings i need to reach neutral price of good (+0%), including buildings in queue,
-if buildings are fully stuffed,
-interactive infrastructure - number i need is how much infra left including buildings in queue so i dont need to calculate if i have enough infra,
-button to extend infrastructure just next to infra lvl (simple + will be ok but will be great if this + would work with alt to shift infra to top of the queue),

Right now my gameplay loop looks like this:
Check market for overpriced goods -> go to designated province -> check peasants -> calculate how much 1 building produce -> calculate how many i need to reach neutral price lvl -> check if i have enough infra -> check if any other buildings in queue will reduce infra lvl in province -> queue infra -> queue buildings -> check how much input i need to provide -> repeat process from "go to designated province".
Thats a lot of clicks. Now what it should look like:
Quick look on outliner to check price lvl -> go to building lens -> choose product -> sort province by building lvl -> look on peasants -> hover mouse over + button -> click how many times tooltip suggest -> click + button next to infra to fix infra lvl -> go to next input product lens
This would reduce time spent on loop at least 2 times and even more in late game. With those changes to UI, having 5k construction points wouldnt be a chore.

I just go 1-2-5-10-20-50-100 and let economy eat shock

 

[Cagallo]

Incentivising that you should meet demand of your people is bad? So its actualy good if some poor kid miss his dinner? You know what +10% price means? It means that someone will go home without geting this item because there are more people than actual products. There are no stockpiles in this game. I am not counting cash reserve as stockpile because if you have small deficit in input (+5% iron) and bigger deficit in output (+10% tools) you actualy making end product out of thin air without losing cash reservs.
The biggest gameplay loop is about meeting demand, so if i see blue bar and +1% in price i feel that someone is still sad in my country and i need to fix that state.
I am not recommending to delete productivity, you can still go under 0.
In my Japanese campaign even with all PM techs in 1890 i am only overproducing chairs and clothes. I still can't reach neutral price lvl for all goods.

I would vote you as kaiser

 

[Port.Sacral]

It's possibly too late, but could you include in the update that Edo is renamed to Tokyo when the capital is moved to Kanto after the Meiji-Restauration?

 

[Bearjuden]

It's possibly too late, but could you include in the update that Edo is renamed to Tokyo when the capital is moved to Kanto after the Meiji-Restauration?

Related to this, I don't understand why, when you start as the Shogunate, your capital doesn't start at Edo.

You are explicitly not the Imperial "administration". You start as the Shogunate, it's in the name. The Shogunate was based out of Edo. Kyoto being the Shogunate's capital is goofy. And it would better reflect mechanically how power in Edo was more important, with the 25% capital clout modifier. Having power in Kyoto would no longer boost your clout beyond the norm, and having power in Edo would. The only thing that should be involved is a rename.

 

[Port.Sacral]

Related to this, I don't understand why, when you start as the Shogunate, your capital doesn't start at Edo.

You are explicitly not the Imperial "administration". You start as the Shogunate, it's in the name. The Shogunate was based out of Edo. Kyoto being the Shogunate's capital is goofy. And it would better reflect mechanically how power in Edo was more important, with the 25% capital clout modifier. Having power in Kyoto would no longer boost your clout beyond the norm, and having power in Edo would. The only thing that should be involved is a rename.

Well, Edo was the Seat of the Shogunate, but the Capital of Japan was Kyoto as Seat of the Tenno. The Shogunate recognized this. Formally the Shogunate ruled in the Name of the Tenno.

 

[Bearjuden]

Well, Edo was the Seat of the Shogunate, but the Capital of Japan was Kyoto as Seat of the Tenno. The Shogunate recognized this. Formally the Shogunate ruled in the Name of the Tenno.

But as I said, the mechanics of the game itself recognize where the power actually was, which was Edo. Clout is boosted in the capital by being proximate to real power, which was in Edo. Events relating to the capital bureaucracy should target Edo, where the bureaucracy actually was. The situation with Kyoto makes more sense as a Japan-unique modifier or something to that effect than a game-recognized capital.

edit: as another instance of mechanical weirdness coming from Kyoto-as-capital, in the event of a revolt, you always keep the capital. As the Shogunate, it's weird that Kyoto is 100% loyal but Edo can rebel against you.

 

[Caitou Tan]

The 1.2 is awesome, and I can't wait to play the official 1.2. But when I was playing the 1.2 beta, I noticed a problem: When a battle was coming to an end, the few remaining battalions on the losing side would strangely hold out for a long time. Long enough to constantly gain recovery and replenishment, and cause the battle to reverse or stall for a significant amount of time. Is this a known problem and will improve?

Another problem is that even though Sakhalin is a tribal country, players can't colonize it because Japan and Russia claim it. Is this for some kind of game balance rule or is there some kind of realistic/historical basis?

Finally, I remember from previous development logs that the developers were considering a mechanism where players would active request a certain price to join a side of diplomacy game, or even request a price from itself(Such as offering its own territory, or becoming a protected state) to exchange for player participation.

And also, let player actively invest/develop other countries with their own building ability.

Will these be part of 1.2? Or will they be another future update?

 

[Soranya]

Plans: Yes! Unsure if it will make it into 1.2 though.

Low Hanging fruits - gather them
At least thats what my scrum master always says when i am traying to do the fancy interesting long lasting tasks first

 

[CdZnTe]

I think that you totally nailed it with areas that need UX improvements the most. I especially like new population and trading routes overviews. I still hope that you will come up in the future with improvements for construction management for countries with big construction capacity.

 

[Keksburg]

It used to be like this, the problem is the way GDP grows exponentially over the course of the game. I've been eyeing a solution where I compare against the average state GDP in the world, but it's a little trickier to explain to the player.

It's a very good direction to consider dynamic GDP to reflect a global development. But as for infamy, I suggest that the major concern should be population, buildings and resources potential. One same states may bring different GDP when owned by different country, but population, buildings and resources potential are always there.