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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #75 - Diplomatic Improvements in 1.2

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Hello and welcome to another Victoria 3 Dev Diary about Update 1.2! By now the Open Beta is of course in full swing, and everything in this post will either already be available to try out or be part of one of the upcoming updates to the Open Beta in the following weeks. However, we still want to take the time to properly outline the changes we’re making to the game in 1.2 for those who either don’t want to opt into the Open Beta or are just interested in more detail and context. Today’s Dev Diary will be focusing on changes on the Diplomatic side of the game, both in terms of new functionality and AI.

The first improvement we’re going to go over today is Colonial Claims, which is a change to Colonization that is intended to prevent some of the more ahistorical nonsense we have going on in colonization at the moment, such as countries rushing for Hokkaido before Japan can get it or the United States setting up shop in Tierra del Fuego. Quite simply, what it means is that some countries now start with claims on states owned by Decentralized Nations, and any country which *doesn’t* have a claim on that state is blocked from colonizing it so long as the claiming state maintains an Interest there.

As an example, the Hudson Bay Company starts with a claim on Alberta in 1.2, while the United States of America does not, which means that the USA cannot start just colonizing into Canada without first forcing the HBC to revoke their claim through the use of a ‘Revoke Claim’ war goal. Similarly, Chile and Argentina have overlapping claims on some parts of Patagonia and thus are able to race each other for it, but won’t have it sniped away from them by a Belgium with grandiose Latin American ambitions.

While we’re on the topic of colonization, I should also mention that something else we’ve changed to improve how it plays 1.2 is how the Native Uprising diplomatic play works. In 1.1.2, a colonizer that defeats a Native Uprising would annex the entire native Decentralized Nation, which led to some weird pacing and balance issues. This has been changed to instead give the colonizer a special ‘Colonial Rights’ diplomatic pact with the defeated natives, which lasts for the duration of the truce. During this period, colonization speed is doubled and no further uprisings can occur from that particular Decentralized Nation.

It is no longer possible to simply snipe Hokkaido away from the Japanese Shogunate, as they start with a claim on the Ainu-controlled parts of the island
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Next up is a change to Diplomatic Plays that allows countries to expand their Primary Demands in a play. An issue that has been repeatedly identified by players since release is that once they grow strong enough, the AI has a tendency to back down against them in plays, ceding one war goal at a time and setting in place a five-year truce before the next demand can be made. While this does fit with the design principle that there should be a reason to want to back down, the end result could end up unduly frustrating and wasn’t just an issue for the player, either, as the AI of the USA struggled to reach the West Coast when it could only take one state off Mexico at a time.

To address this in a way that directly tackles the problem while still ensuring that it still isn’t simply best to always take your chances with a war, we’ve changed the concept of Primary Demand (ie the first war goal added, which gets enforced when backing down) to Primary Demands, which will all be enforced when the enemy backs down, and Secondary Demands, which will only be relevant if the play escalates to war. Just as it works right now, the first war goal added on each side is always a Primary Demand, but there are now ways to add more Primary Demands beyond the first.

Firstly, any war goal targeting the main opponent (or any of their subjects) that is added by Swaying another country to your side will now automatically be a Primary Demand. In other words, if you’re launching a play against France and they’re being supported by Spain, any country you sway to your side with a war goal targeting France will have that war goal added as a Primary Demand, while war goals targeting Spain are Secondary Demands. The AI understands this and will place higher value on Primary Demands, since they are much more likely to actually receive what’s promised by the war goal in the end.

Secondly, any war goals you yourself add can be made into Primary Demands if they target the main opponent (or any of their subjects). However, doing so is considered less ‘justified’ than adding Primary war goals through swaying, and so will cost an amount of maneuvers and generate an amount of infamy proportional to the cost of adding the war goal in the first place. This means that while adding more Primary Demands for yourself ensures that you receive them if you end up making them back down, it isn’t free, and is done at the expense of adding additional war goals or swaying more countries to your side. The AI is also going to receive some tweaks here to make them less likely to back down if you keep piling on Primary Demands, as at a certain point the unreasonableness of the demands just becomes too much to take without making a fight of it.

The cost of expanding your Primary Demands is entirely relative to the cost of the wargoal, so in the case of taking the small and depopulated state of Utah, it’s quite low
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On the topic of AI, we move on to the final topic for today’s dev diary: Peace AI and War Exhaustion mechanics. Both of these have received a bunch of improvements in 1.2, though most of these improvements have not yet made it into the Open Beta. War Exhaustion, of course, is the rate at which a country’s War Support drops towards -100, at which point they are forced to capitulate. In the 1.1.2 version of the game, the main driver of War Exhaustion is occupation of territory, particularly wargoals and the capital, leading to the much-maligned ‘just naval invade Berlin’ meta.

In 1.2, you still get War Exhaustion from occupation, but the amount gained from occupied wargoals/capital is less, and War Exhaustion from occupation of other territory now scales non-linearly, with severity increasing rapidly as the country approaches full occupation: a fully enemy-controlled Modena will still capitulate quickly, while a Russia that has lost control of a few states in the Caucasus is barely going to be affected. Instead, the primary driver of War Exhaustion is now casualties and battles lost. War Exhaustion from Casualties now scale against the total available manpower for the country instead of its Population, so a country with an army of 10,000 is going to be much more affected by 5000 casualties than a country with an army of 100,000, even if the two countries have the same overall population. For available manpower, all regular battalions are counted (whether mobilized or not), but conscripts are only counted once they’re actually called in - so calling up more conscripts can be a way to directly affect your War Exhaustion rate.

Furthermore, War Exhaustion from Casualties now scales against the % of battles (proportional to battle size, so a battle of 100 battalions vs 100 battalions counts more than one of 5 vs 1) that your side of the war has lost. What this means is that a country which keeps winning battles can absorb far more losses than one which keeps losing them, and allows for battlefield victory to play much more directly into achieving overall victory in the war.

Even though the amount of casualties relative to army size are fairly similar owing to the massive Qing army, the British are losing war support at a much slower rate due to their string of battlefield victories
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The AI for making peace has also received some upgrades. In addition to now just being better at constructing equitable peace deals through a rewrite of the core logic behind AI-made peace deals, the AI has also been made to consider more angles when deciding whether or not a peace deal is acceptable. Firstly, a new factor has been added called ‘achievable wargoal’, where the AI looks at whether a war goal is likely to be gained by the side that holds it through the capitulation of the target if a peace deal is not signed. Such wargoals, if held by the AI, will make them far more reluctant to sign peace unless those wargoals are part of the peace, while they are simultaneously more likely to accept the enemy pressing wargoals against them that they’d just lose anyway if the war continued. Secondly, the AI now looks at more additional factors for peace (such as the relative military strength of the two sides) and other factors have been tweaked, for example the size of AI Gold Reserves now has less importance than it used to.

Even though the Qing are offering considerable concessions, the British AI will refuse this peace deal because they believe they can get everything they want anyway once Qing is forced to capitulate
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That’s it for today! This is of course not an exhaustive list of everything that’s been improved diplomacy-wise in 1.2, and there are a number of improvements still planned for future Open Beta updates, particularly on making the diplomatic AI behave in a more plausible way and be better at sticking by important allies, but details on that will have to wait for another day. Next week, we continue talking about the 1.2 Update as our tech lead Emil will tell you all about the improvements we’ve made to Performance. See you then!
 
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US AI often ended the war with a white peace because the front with Mexico is too long, has this been fixed?
I would also like to see a fix for the native uprising, where the AI abandons the front without a general and loses the war.
 
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Let's say I absorb the HBC as Ontario to form Canada. Do I inherit the claim on Alberta, or can the Americans now swoop in to colonize the area?
 
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Can you please stop posting dev diaries in this invisible mode, only to make them available a day later? It makes them not show up in the big news feed at top of the main forum page, at which point there are Stellaris diaries and other news that push this Dev Diary towards the end.

If this is for internal revision or something, just make a temporary post, then repost it in its final format.

When I access the forum, it makes it look like this diary is yesterday's news:

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Any changes to allied AI when it comes to deciding stances on a front? It was already annoying when my idiotic puppet with his 5 brigades decided to advance on a front where I would rather defend, pulling my troops into less tenable battles. With the increased emphasis on casualties and battlefield victories, this behavior is likely to be even more rage-inducing.
 
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oh. so instead of fixing logistics, fleet behaviour, or allow to actually manage armies, now occupying capital is just made something absolutely fine in a war?

that's funny

edit: after frustration has calmed down, forgive my trolling above.

thanks for all the improvements, it's a great game and you're making it a lot better, and I am grateful for that.

but I maintain that the simple fact that it is considered *meta* to capture the capital and governement siege of an opponent is only natural and has been an almost guarantee to win a war throughout history for obvious reasons.

what is not natural is that it is possible to do it with a simple landing because how fleets and logistics work let it be a viable option. And I hope this real issue will be address rather sooner than later.
 
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Let's say I absorb the HBC as Ontario to form Canada. Do I inherit the claim on Alberta, or can the Americans now swoop in to colonize the area?
Right now in the beta claims are not absorbed but this on my fixlist as you should definitely inherit their claims (at least when you annex them through canadian unification mechanics).
 
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US AI often ended the war with a white peace because the front with Mexico is too long, has this been fixed?
I would also like to see a fix for the native uprising, where the AI abandons the front without a general and loses the war.
The american AI should be far less likely to agree to white peace if they are making progress towards capitulating Mexico, as mentioned in the dev diary. The latter issue *should* also be fixed in the current version of the beta, though we haven't gotten enough feedback on it yet to say for sure.
 
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Oversight.
Cool, btw I have additional questions and comments
1. The Alaska Purchase event is impossible to trigger during normal gameplay as the US. I've played plenty of games and Russia never accumulates any sort of debt during the span of the game.
2. Please consider including Spanish American war and the Newlands resolution as events in upcoming US based content DLC. (I know the Civil war will get one lol)
3. There is a glitch I have experienced where construction goes into negative values both for Public and Private buildings. For Public buildings simply cancelling that construction restarts the queue but for private buildings only getting rid of a province seems to help. It has happened in all my games once construction numbers start getting past the thousands.
 
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Beta player here, I noticed that it's possible to use Return State against native uprisings where your country has claims. Is this intended? I personally like this as it makes completing Manifest Destiny and getting Oregon significantly faster.
 
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Congratulations on this amazing, comprehensive patch. Fixes basically every problem this game ever had. The ui work, incorporating mods, feels like a whole new game. The economic systems all feel great to play in their own way. Command economy and even laissez faire is viable now. Even diplomacy and warfare, though admitedly not as good as the other systems, are the best experience i ever played in a Victoria game so far. If somebody told my younger, Victoria 1 playing self one day we would have a version so close to perfection i would not have believed.

I was concerned the profit cycle would require new mechanics before the base was good, but now i think it is in a great shape to be expanded by dlcs.
 
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Almost certainly not feasible for 1.2, but have you guys considered additional changes to the play/peace system for "interloping" powers in plays/wars? For example:

I'm playing as France and support Mexico when they get targeted by the USA. But the only thing I can really get out of that support is... keeping Mexico around. You can't add wargoals despite the fact that you're going to be providing probably 90% of the fighting troops. If I want to make the US abolish slavery or release a country, I feel disincentivized to participate in other plays because (1) I'm going to be throwing a lot of troops and money at it with little return for me since I can't achieve those goals, and (2) I now have to wait 5 years to achieve the goals I want because I wanted to keep Mexico alive and ended up in a treaty.

Is there any way we could make it so that great powers interfering in wars can benefit more directly from them? Maybe give them a share of the maneuvers proportional to their army projection? It's not a great solution, but it might be better than always ending up choosing being an isolationist because I can't really benefit from my interference.
 
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It is no longer possible to simply snipe Hokkaido away from the Japanese Shogunate, as they start with a claim on the Ainu-controlled parts of the island
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Awesome. I hope the same thing could be done in Western Sahara, to prevent the region from being insta-colonized by Britain in the 1830's.
 
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Why does adding things to primary demands require maneuvers as well as infamy? It still leads to the same problem where you're likely better off having the crisis escalate to war because that allows for more demands. (For example, as the ottomans if you want to use crises instead of wars to get your land back from egypt it'll take 3 or 4 as opposed to 1 or 2 with wars.)
 
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Thank you for responding. I want to point out that the known issue specifies "Conquer State" and not "Return State", the latter of which requires a claim, hence why I thought it might be intended and not a bug.
You should not be able to add any additional wargoals on native uprisings beyond colonial rights.
 
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In 1.1.2, a colonizer that defeats a Native Uprising would annex the entire native Decentralized Nation, which led to some weird pacing and balance issues.
One thing I've noticed on the beta is that it's still possible to annex a decentralized nation quickly by adding a secondary demand (for a small infamy cost, but it's often very worth it). Given that the whole point is there's no central government, imo these countries should be invalid for any targeting by any demand other than colonization rights. Like, if I ask for war reps, who am I even getting it from? There's no central entity for me to make the demand of.
 
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All of these are really solid, effective changes that address some of the main problems the game has!

Though, in regards to colonization and colonial claims, it sounds like we will still see the US colonizing Africa and other random territories once they run out of land to colonize in the US. Is there any mechanic to prevent this?

One suggestion is to include a colonization law called "Frontier colonialism" that allows for only colonies that connect directly on land with the capital. This could be applied to countries like the US and Russia as a sort of historical colonialism law with little reason for other countries to switch to it.
 
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