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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #79 - What’s next after 1.2?

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Hello and welcome to the first Victoria 3 dev diary after the release of update 1.2! With this update now out, we feel that it’s a good time to return to the Post-Release Plans we outlined in Dev Diary #64, check what’s already been done and go over what further changes and improvements we have planned for the game in future free updates such as 1.3, 1.4 and beyond. In the Post-Release Plans Dev Diary we outlined three key areas of improvement for the game: Military, Historical Immersion and Diplomacy and these are very much still our main targets, but are now being joined by an Internal Politics section. The Other section is also still there for anything that doesn’t fall neatly into one of the four categories.

For this dev diary, I’ll be aiming to give you an overview of where we stand and where we’re heading by going through each of these four categories and marking on each one with one of the below statuses:
  • Done: This is a part of the game that we now consider to be in good shape. Something being Done of course doesn’t mean we’re never going to expand or improve on it in the future, just that it’s no longer a high priority for us.
  • Updated: This is a part of the game where we have made some of the improvements and changes that we want to make, but aren’t yet satisfied with where it stands and plan to make further improvements to it in future updates such as 1.3, 1.4 and so on.
  • Not Updated: This is a part of the game where we haven’t yet released any of our planned changes/improvements in either 1.1 or 1.2 but still plan to do so for future updates.
  • New: This is a planned change or improvement that is newly added, ie wasn’t present on the list in Dev Diary #64.

Just like in the original Post-Release Plans dev diary, we will only be talking about improvements, changes and new features that are part of planned free updates in this dev diary. So then, let’s get to the categories and see where we stand! For each point in each category that isn’t new to this update there will be a sub-point detailing our progress on the point so far.

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Military​

Done:
  • Adding the ability for countries to set strategic objectives for their generals
  • The ability to designate Strategic Objectives were added to the game in update 1.2
  • Addressing some of the rough edges in how generals function at the moment, such as improving unit selection for battles and balancing the overall progression along fronts
    • While there are still rough edges in the military system and we undoubtedly will continue to tweak the precise balancing here, we consider the specific issues with front progression and unit selection for battles largely resolved in update 1.2
Updated:
  • Improving the ability of players to get an overview of their military situation and exposing more data, like the underlying numbers behind battle sizes
    • We have made a number of improvements to army visualization in 1.2 and added breakdowns for factors such as battle sizes, but we have more work to do when it comes to giving players a good overview of wars and making multi-front wars easier to manage
  • Increasing the visibility of navies and making admirals easier to work with
    • Some improvements have been made here, such as removing the restriction on naval invasions using Generals from different HQs, but we still consider navies an area of the game in need of improvement from a visibility and usability standpoint
  • Finding solutions for the issue where theaters can split into multiple (sometimes even dozens) of tiny fronts as pockets are created
    • We have mitigated this issue in update 1.2 by auto-closing small pockets and improving battle province selection but the issue still persists (particularly in wars with a large number of small countries) so further improvements are needed here
Not Updated:
  • Experimenting with controlled front-splitting for longer fronts
    • Some internal design work has been done on this, but it’s very tricky to get right without worsening the front splitting issues - it’s still very much a high priority for us nonetheless!
New:
  • Adding a system for limited wars to reduce the number of early-game total wars between Great Powers
  • Solving the issue of armies going home after Generals die during a war by adding a system for field promotion

Historical Immersion​

Done:
  • Ensuring the American Civil War has a decent chance to happen, happens in a way that makes sense (slave states rising up to defend slavery, etc), and isn’t easily avoidable by the player.
    • The ACW is now more difficult to avoid, and when sparked over the issue of slavery, should now create a historically plausible CSA (note that there may still be unintended cases of a ‘fake CSA’ appearing due to a non slavery related landowner revolt, which isn’t covered by the above fixes)
  • Working to expose and improve content such as expeditions and journal entries that is currently too difficult for players to find or complete
    • The Journal Entries that we wanted to make easier to complete and/or more visible have been tweaked in the intended way (though we will undoubtedly continue to make minor balance adjustments to them)
Updated:
  • Tweaking content such as the Meiji Restoration, Alaska purchase and so on in a way that they can more frequently be successfully performed by the AI, through a mix of AI improvements and content tweaks
    • Significant improvements have been made to the AI’s ability to complete Journal Entries such as Tanzimat, Manifest Destiny and so on, though it still struggles with others like the Meiji Restoration and so further work is needed.
  • Ensuring unifications such as Italy, Germany and Canada doesn’t constantly happen decades ahead of the historical schedule, and increasing the challenge of unifying Italy and Germany in particular
    • The Unifications now occur in a way that is more ‘on schedule’, but we still want to change them so that they mechanically behave in a more historically plausible way
  • General AI tweaks to have AI countries play in a more believable, immersive way
    • Significant changes have been made to the diplomatic AI in both 1.1 and 1.2 but this is an area that is going to continue receiving attention from us for some time, particularly when it comes to making the AI less opaque in its reasoning (for example, explaining why they sided against you in a diplomatic play despite good relations)
New:
  • Adding more country, state and region-specific content to enhance historical flavor of different countries

Diplomacy​

Done:
  • The ability to expand your primary demands in a diplomatic play beyond just one wargoal (though this has to be done in such a way that there’s still a reason for countries to actually back down)
  • Adding additional primary demands was added to the game in update 1.2
Not Updated:
  • ‘Reverse-swaying’, ie the ability to offer to join a side in a play in exchange for something
  • More things to offer in diplomatic plays, like giving away your own land for support
  • Trading (or at least giving away) states
  • Foreign investment and some form of construction in other countries, at least if they’re part of your market
  • Improving and expanding on interactions with and from subjects, such as being able to grant and ask for more autonomy through a diplomatic action
New:
  • Allowing peace deals to be negotiated during a Diplomatic Play instead of only having the option to give in

Internal Politics​

Updated:
  • (Moved from ‘Other’) Making it more interesting and ‘competitive’ but also more challenging to play in a more conservative and autocratic style
  • We have made some changes here, such as locking laws behind regressive distributions of power and changing GDP to not unfairly favor manufacturing economies but this is still an area where we want to do more
New:
  • Improving the mechanics of law enactment and revolutions to be more engaging for the player to interact with
  • Adding more mechanics for characters and giving the player more reason to care about individual characters in your country:
  • Adding laws that expand on diversity of countries and introduce new ways to play the game

Other​

Done:
  • Making it easier to get an overview of your Pops and Pop factors such as Needs, Standard of Living and Radicals/Loyalists
    • Update 1.2 added new overviews for Pop Needs and better explanations for the reasons behind radicals and loyalists
  • Experimenting with autonomous private-sector construction and increasing the differences in gameplay between different economic systems (though as I’ve said many times, we are never going to take construction entirely out of the hands of the player)
    • Autonomous private-sector construction was added to the game in update 1.2
  • Ironing out some of the kinks with the late-game economy and the AI’s ability to develop key resources such as oil and rubber
    • While the economic AI is definitely going to continue to receive improvements, the specific issue of the AI never developing these key resources should be fixed
New:
  • Improving Alerts and the Current Situation widget to provide more useful and actionable information.

Just as last time we shared these plans, the above is not an exhaustive list of everything we want to do, and I can’t give an exact timeline for any of the individual points or which precise future update they will be a part of. This list also still only covers changes and additions that will be part of free updates! We are planning to continue releasing dev diaries like this updating you on our progress after each major update to the game.

That’s all for today’s update, I hope you found it informative! Next week we’ll dive right back into regular dev diaries as we start going over the details of what we have in the works for Update 1.3, though I’ll note that we won’t be ready to talk about the release date for that update. See you then!
 
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good job so far everyone but One thing that baffled me when vi3 launched is the lack of alt hist or just formables in general, why we don't have countries like somalia, swabia , maghreb and or hispanic union hegemony??? there are a ton of other examples but my point being that there is a large part of the UI dedicated to formables that isn't used for the lack of em....

other point being.... forming a country seems rather underwhelming , you don't get an events that details how other countries reacts or your ppl, nothing, or at least have event options for the ai to pick like making italy move captal to rome for example (while still allowing the player to keep theirs if they so whish)

also like... go more crazy with the flags of countries we already have, give hesse , frankfurt and other german minors pretty flags, maybe even have an achievement so ppl see that flag more, puppets also, so little puppet flags we have....
 
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Wizzington is there any chance we might see laws regarding:
(a) centralization vs decentralization (unitary states, federations and confederacies) which could help reduce turmoil costs or increase authority
(b) the length of the working day (8 hour workday, 10 hour workday, unregulated workday) which could improve SoL and reduce unemployment at the price of more workers needed to run a factory
(c) agrarian land ownership models (enclosure acts, homesteading, rural land reform etc) as distinct from the current economy laws

I think these are the 3 law categories that are most historically relevant for the time period
These are fantastic suggestions.
 
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Still loving the game and loving the 1.2 update. The only gripe I have is that as the game gets more and more polished the state of the diplomatic system just shows it weakness in the current version. So here are a couple of ideas that I think might make diplomacy more meaningful and fun.

Firstly that we don't just declare interests in a region but also add a strategic goal to your interest. Like balance of power, colonies, create economic ties etc. This could have a broader impact on countries relations with each other. A colonial power might not fully appreciate you declaring the same regions as them as an interest for colonizing. Or a minor power might try to convince a player with balance of power to join a war with the goal of liberating a country withing the region.

Secondly I would love to see interaction between diplomacy and internal politics. I've had a playtrough where I tried to use as much diplomatic means to subjugate countries and it made it clear just how limited meaningful diplomatic interactions are. As a great power you might want to bribe the local land owners IG into becoming your subject which may be all it takes or there might be other IGs that react violently against it and start a civil war.

Which brings the topic of civil war. Please only split a country at the end of the diplomatic play phase. I'd love to see the civil war increment as the ticker of the diplomatic play where other countries can then try and influence a side of a country in turmoil. Things like promising weapon shipments, troops or just bankrolling them to maybe even flat out joining their side. Then as the tensions reach a breaking point the civil war finally erupts and the country is split.
 
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As a sandbox game where most actions have a reaction elsewhere in the system, there are very few instances in Victoria 3 where you have "no-brainer" types of actions to take. Our rule of thumb is that alerts, that prominently signal a call to action and stick around until you've resolved them, should be irrefutably bad for you and something the player is usually easily able to resolve with a few clicks. For example, an undefended front will cause you to lose territory very quickly, and a severe goods shortage is very likely to hamstring your industry without a net benefit to anyone. Both situations can usually be resolved by sending a General to the front (even if you have to hire a new one) or importing goods / reducing consumption by downsizing, so these qualify as Alerts.

Other types of "alerts" are a lot less severe, might require long-term planning to resolve without knock-on issues, or might even be a desired (though unbalanced) state - say you're paying a lot of money for Man-o-Wars but your Capitalists that run the Shipyards need to be kept in check, you might not want to reduce their earning potential by importing from your neighbors. Exposing this situation under a menu you can access on demand when you have time, and even dismiss items if they don't apply to you, makes more sense than shoving them in your face and demanding you deal with them by some prescribed method.

What we're going to look into here is improving what information shows up where and in what form, and ideally giving more control to customize this as well. I don't have any more details to share quite yet though.
I think the design goals here make sense, but what comes up for me is that sometimes I want to do an action whenever it is available, and sometimes those actions are less severe as you say. I have this same issue in CK3, where it's hard because there aren't icons associated with each alert for me to see at a glance what is new, and if the thing I want to keep an eye on is present.
My head in the clouds dream would be for players to be able to configure what goes in the situation and what gets a banner, moving notifications from one to the other (and for the associated icons to be visible in the situation view if the player wants them.) I imagine there are engine limitations, but poking the engine team about this might make it easy for CK3 to implement a similar system easily.
Anyways, that's my probably unrealistic dream, thanks for your time!
 
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Amazing job with 1.2 and amazing that you plan even more free updates with content highly requested by the community, that's great!

One thing you didn't mention: Do you plan on adding more interaction with colonies/releasable colonies in unincorporated lands? For example that you could release a French Indochina, German South-West Africa (flavor name for German Namibia or so, maybe), etc.? They could of course not get the native population as primary culture but the culture of their overlord (to nerf them and not exploit that) and are super loyal.
And maybe that you can then unite two adjacent colonial governments to a bigger colonial administration.
That way you could also portray the administration of Oblasts of the Russian Empire, which set up several local administrations and autonomous zones inside for easier administration.
You could then maybe waive the influence costs from that overlord-subject relationship and could just as diplomatic action annex it again, once you want to fully integrate it into the realm.

Just a random thought that might fit well into the game :)
 
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Is there a reason why you want to continue working on the Current Situation system rather than having a row of banners/alerts on top a la EU4/Stellaris?

While I appreciate most of CK3's UI changes from CK2, the decision to hide away hugely important notifications in a button that's very easy to miss has always baffled me.

Still, thanks for continuing to work on polishing the game before releasing new paid content: I hope this will smooth the path to a steady release for Victoria 3's first DLC!
Current situation as the most disgusting piece of user interface in Victoria 3. Evenmore disgusting than whole mobile game warfae system, which is simply a super-dumbed down system, while Current Situation actively harms gameplay experience. We should ditch it as quickly as possible
 
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As a sandbox game where most actions have a reaction elsewhere in the system, there are very few instances in Victoria 3 where you have "no-brainer" types of actions to take. Our rule of thumb is that alerts, that prominently signal a call to action and stick around until you've resolved them, should be irrefutably bad for you and something the player is usually easily able to resolve with a few clicks. For example, an undefended front will cause you to lose territory very quickly, and a severe goods shortage is very likely to hamstring your industry without a net benefit to anyone. Both situations can usually be resolved by sending a General to the front (even if you have to hire a new one) or importing goods / reducing consumption by downsizing, so these qualify as Alerts.

Other types of "alerts" are a lot less severe, might require long-term planning to resolve without knock-on issues, or might even be a desired (though unbalanced) state - say you're paying a lot of money for Man-o-Wars but your Capitalists that run the Shipyards need to be kept in check, you might not want to reduce their earning potential by importing from your neighbors. Exposing this situation under a menu you can access on demand when you have time, and even dismiss items if they don't apply to you, makes more sense than shoving them in your face and demanding you deal with them by some prescribed method.

What we're going to look into here is improving what information shows up where and in what form, and ideally giving more control to customize this as well. I don't have any more details to share quite yet though.
There are bad design decisions. Current situations indicator is one of them.
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Monkey brain is indeed weird! I have frequent conversations regarding both situations, AI getting involved when it feels weird that they do, and AI not getting involved when they'd be expected to. What this tells me is that we need to do more work visualizing how the AI makes decisions; better predictive tools relating to diplomacy; and more AI balancing based on such displayed information, to get expectations and reality to match up better and contextualize why the AI is making unexpected decisions in the situations where it does. And we do want some unpredictability, I think - if we had a perfectly predictable AI, diplomacy would turn into more of a puzzle game than a strategy game.
Yeah, that's probably a sensible way to approach the issue. The other extreme case would be EU4, where the game tells you exactly why the AI does what it does (e.g. whether or not it will honor a call to arms), and while I like that very much (also because of the ways EU4 has to meddle with AI opinions, trust, favors etc.), it is very unrealistic.
 
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The new version is very nice and I've been playing it almost every day lately. But as far as states and hubs in China and Vietnam are concerned, it remains a disaster. The railway lines in China are also quite strange and distracting when I play. We can solve it by modding ourself, but I still want vanilla to be more historical and accurate.

Despite these issues, it's a great, fun game and it just keeps getting better.
 
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Firstly that we don't just declare interests in a region but also add a strategic goal to your interest. Like balance of power, colonies, create economic ties etc. This could have a broader impact on countries relations with each other. A colonial power might not fully appreciate you declaring the same regions as them as an interest for colonizing. Or a minor power might try to convince a player with balance of power to join a war with the goal of liberating a country withing the region.
I dig this. An idea that came to mind could be some kind of Berlin (Or Insert capital here) conference journal that would fire at a certain point when multiple powers have declared strategic colonial goals in Africa. Maybe the trigger could be researching malaria prevention. Not sure how it would work, but maybe through negotiation events, nations can be given claims on or reduced infamy for conquest of sections of Africa. For economic strategic focuses, maybe it could reduce the bureaucratic cost of trade routes and increases the volume of goods imported or exported from nations in the area.
 
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Current situation as the most disgusting piece of user interface in Victoria 3. Evenmore disgusting than whole mobile game warfae system, which is simply a super-dumbed down system, while Current Situation actively harms gameplay experience. We should ditch it as quickly as possible
I hate the thing too and want to see it gone as well but you make it sound like the devil incarnate, relax, it's just an inefficient part of the UI.
 
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Everything in this list is good to see, thanks for your hard work.
My own expectations for future updates are:
Foreign investment on natural resources, which is already been advised for many other players.
Improve the AE system. It is unimaginable that you calculate ae by population will lead to subject Netherlands is much less than subject Japan. Perhaps you can use GDP to rebalance ae.

and two of my own preferences:
Give culture diversity preference back to liberals
Give more resources to the world map, sometimes resources will used up
Stop let the auto-build pool build art and weapons factories insanely. That’s the reason I disable auto-build after some games
Improve migration population per week to make population rebalance easier. Also the system could be rewritten. For example natural migration only occurs near the few states, and mass migration could be overseas to colonies and other countries/ continents.
 
Is there a possibility of when the AI has civil wars we can make it more clear what movement triggered it? Having to go through and compare and check every law between the two sides is a pain, especially when I want to intervene for ideological reasons, but the names of the participants are nonsensical, like calling a petite boug revolt a fascist revolt even when the leader is a communist etc. Basically both sides on a civil war should get a little tag on the country screen saying "proponent of X movement" or "opponent of X movement" to make it more clear.
 
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Also, another thing I just realized: We need some sort of "states of interest" option where we can add states to a list we'd like to own, so that other countries will know what to possibly offer us in a diplomatic play - I have never seen the AI trying to sway me by offering me a state.
 
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I still believe without this;
  • Foreign investment and some form of construction in other countries, at least if they’re part of your market
there is no exploitation, you can only extort some money and currently puppets/dominions are just your tributaries. Imagine not being able to touch or inflict your puppet to produce something. And Victorian game without exploitation sounds little bit dull imo.
 
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Unless I'm blind, there's a major problem that you missed, Wizzington. Suppose you're at war with Tweedle Dee and are occupying 80% of their land when Tweedle Dum declares a civil war. Suddenly, not only is most of your occupied land transferred to Tweedle Dum, but outright winning the war only gives you the parts that were loyal to Tweedle Dee (which could be 10% or less!)

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I think he was talking about when a battle starts with 100k vs 100k, but ends up with 3k vs 2k because everyone else is a casualty and somehow it takes forever for those few remaining soldiers to die.
According to the Let's Play of Cthulhu Saves The World, enemies get 10% stronger every turn. Paradox can do something similar in Vic3 by increasing kill rate 1% a day (obviously the number may need to be tweaked with).

---

I've thought of multiple people per IG before; my suggestion is ceiling(sqrt(percentage)) characters for each IG -- so if 2% of the population is Intelligentsia, that would mean 2 characters (1.414 rounded up) in Intelligentsia. If an IG grows enough, more characters are added; if it shrinks, characters are more likely to retire and will not be replaced (until the IG grows again!).

That also lets us have some fun! Jockeying to succeed the dead faction leader, disagreements between characters who share an IG, events that don't involve the faction leader, characters with unusual viewpoints, and so on.
 
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As a sandbox game where most actions have a reaction elsewhere in the system, there are very few instances in Victoria 3 where you have "no-brainer" types of actions to take. Our rule of thumb is that alerts, that prominently signal a call to action and stick around until you've resolved them, should be irrefutably bad for you and something the player is usually easily able to resolve with a few clicks. For example, an undefended front will cause you to lose territory very quickly, and a severe goods shortage is very likely to hamstring your industry without a net benefit to anyone. Both situations can usually be resolved by sending a General to the front (even if you have to hire a new one) or importing goods / reducing consumption by downsizing, so these qualify as Alerts.

Other types of "alerts" are a lot less severe, might require long-term planning to resolve without knock-on issues, or might even be a desired (though unbalanced) state - say you're paying a lot of money for Man-o-Wars but your Capitalists that run the Shipyards need to be kept in check, you might not want to reduce their earning potential by importing from your neighbors. Exposing this situation under a menu you can access on demand when you have time, and even dismiss items if they don't apply to you, makes more sense than shoving them in your face and demanding you deal with them by some prescribed method.

What we're going to look into here is improving what information shows up where and in what form, and ideally giving more control to customize this as well. I don't have any more details to share quite yet though.
Thanks for this breakdown you explain well here why a teired system of alerts is important. And that not all things merit the top teir.

CK2 and Stellaris fail at this element - but EU4 already had a working system - multicolored (and shaped) alerts. Could you please explain more why it makes sense to have any alerts that the player doesn't have the option of being dropdowns?

(Small note, you also add that you can dismiss items if they aren't interesting as if that's a benafit of the Situation Menu solution, it's not - that's functionality EU4 had already and hence not an argument for either)
 
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I really think the most important thing for laws, are sub laws where you can negotiate about, like voting age, do women have the vote (I know that is currently a seperate law but it should be inside the voting laws), then stuff like pension age, retirement ages, minimum wages (limiting the amount of institutions you can invest in there with the law, aka only minimal minnimum wgae you cannot go above institution 1), Economic and Trade laws could get stuff like monopolie policies, how you interact with bigger companies showing up (which is also an addition to econemy I know) or currently more stuff how building capacity is split and maybe tax exemptioon for specific buildins.
 
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