Ad Astra! ... an Aurora Forum Game, run by blue emu

[randakar]

A tentative design for a Quality class 30,000-ton Battleship:

That looks decent enough. Build a few of these, plus 30.000 ton carriers, and you already have a significant strike force.
Add some beam PD to it ..

I wonder how expensive it is to refit an old ship to these specs though. If you are going to build new ones soon we'd have three fleets, not two.
Not that I consider that an entirely bad thing, mind ..

 

[blue emu]

I'd like to reserve the Dreadnought-class for the huge beam-armed monstrosities firing full broadsides.... which I have not yet seen

I'd like to tech up in Cloaking a bit before building Gun-Ships... that would offer them some protection from missile fire while they're closing in.

 

[unmerged(87160)]

I suggest Warspite as a name for one of Qualities.

 

[Dewirix]

I like the idea of cloaked dreadnoughts, althought with the way things currently are they won't get a shot in. Have you actually engaged another ship at beam ranges yet?

 

[Avernite]

Oooh, I want one of those battleships

 

[Dewirix]

Oooh, I want one of those battleships

Spoken like a true 1930s admiral!

Seriously, what is it about battleships that makes us all bend over backwards to accommodate them in the fleet? It's already been proved that carriers have massive striking power and flexibility.

Ah yes, the coolness factor. Nothing says 'I win' like weathering your opponents missile barrage, pulling up alongside them and blasting them into plasma. It's the personal touch!

 

[Capt. Kiwi]

Spoken like a true 1930s admiral!

Seriously, what is it about battleships that makes us all bend over backwards to accommodate them in the fleet? It's already been proved that carriers have massive striking power and flexibility.

Ah yes, the coolness factor. Nothing says 'I win' like weathering your opponents missile barrage, pulling up alongside them and blasting them into plasma. It's the personal touch!

Longer term it may actually be a better option to go for beam weapons. Theoretically, our gauss point defence frigates should obliterate any missile attack, even before the latest techs are put in place. Throw in some 1.4 m-km range offensive beams and a speed advantage, and you have a recipe for a fleet that is both untouchable and hard hitting without needing any ammunition. We've come close to running out a couple of times already, and up against a sizeable NPC race we probably would. Battlecruiser doctrine is a sound possibility for the future, although missiles would still have their place.

 

[unmerged(105596)]

Long-range missiles are for wimps anyway...

 

[Ayeshteni]

A tentative design for a Quality class 30,000-ton Battleship:

Do you have any tentative designs for a NJ 30k Quality Class BB?

Aye.

 

[GaiusC]

Captain GaiusC has been assigned to the Hero-II NJ class Battlecruiser ESN Patroclus.

Great!
I'll do better than his namesake - or at least will try my best to avoid dying stupidly

Any idea what level the Swatches are at or what their intentions might be?

Getting gold for cheap?

 

[blue emu]

Do you have any tentative designs for a NJ 30k Quality Class BB?

Aye.

Not yet. Any suggestions on priorities for the extra tonnage made available by removing the jump drive? More armor? Gauss PD? Bigger magazines?

EDIT:

Gemstone class Ammunition Tender. 1700+ magazine storage, three layers of PD (AMMs, Gauss PD, CIWS), seven layers of armor.

Gemstone class Ammunition Tender 20,000 tons 1506 Crew 7015.85 BP TCS 400 TH 1358.35 EM 540
9702 km/s Armour 7-65 Shields 18-225 Sensors 1/28/0/0 Damage Control Rating 22 PPV 35
Annual Failure Rate: 145% IFR: 2% Maint Capacity 4823 MSP Max Repair 1080 MSP Est Time: 2.02 Years
Magazine 1731

Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E7.8 (27) Power 143.75 Fuel Use 78% Signature 50.3125 Armour 0 Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 1,425,000 Litres Range 164.4 billion km (196 days at full power)
Epsilon R225/18 Shields (6) Total Fuel Cost 108 Litres per day

Triple Gauss Cannon R4-100 Turret (1x12) Range 40,000km TS: 40000 km/s Power 0-0 RM 4 ROF 5 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
CIWS-250 (1x8) Range 1000 km TS: 25000 km/s ROF 5 Base 50% To Hit
Fire Control S16 192-25000 H50 (1) Max Range: 384,000 km TS: 25000 km/s 97 95 92 90 87 84 82 79 77 74

Size 1 Missile Launcher R6 (9) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 5
Missile PD Fire Control 2053 FC24-R1 (50%) (3) Range 24.2m km Resolution 1
Size 6-G 2053 ASM (268) Speed: 44,700 km/s End: 22.5m Range: 60.3m km WH: 9 Size: 6 TH: 313 / 187 / 93
Size 1-G 2053 AAM (123) Speed: 66,500 km/s End: 2.2m Range: 9m km WH: 1 Size: 1 TH: 487 / 292 / 146

Active PD Search Sensor 2055 MR25-R1 (50%) (1) GPS 180 Range 25.2m km Resolution 1
EM Detection Sensor EM2-28 (1) Sensitivity 28 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 28m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

 

[Ayeshteni]

Not yet. Any suggestions on priorities for the extra tonnage made available by removing the jump drive? More armor? Gauss PD? Bigger magazines?

Extra magazine space certainly couldn't go amiss, given the predominance of missile weaponry. However, on top of that I would go for an increase in Gauss PD as well as starting to introduce Beam weaponry on the frame to start close-in offensive capability. If we do come up against some NPR fleet that will strip our missile stocks, our BB-NJ can still provide offensive support whilst we move over to Close-in Beam tactics.

Admittedly, there would be no way to jump these Battleships, but then our Empire is set along Jumpgate routes, so the defensive capabilities (for our settlements) is easily able to accomodate them, whilst outer-JG capabilities can be postponed under adequate sized military tenders or better designs facilitate jump capability.

Aye.

 

[blue emu]

Extra magazine space certainly couldn't go amiss, given the predominance of missile weaponry. However, on top of that I would go for an increase in Gauss PD as well as starting to introduce Beam weaponry on the frame to start close-in offensive capability. If we do come up against some NPR fleet that will strip our missile stocks, our BB-NJ can still provide offensive support whilst we move over to Close-in Beam tactics.

Admittedly, there would be no way to jump these Battleships, but then our Empire is set along Jumpgate routes, so the defensive capabilities (for our settlements) is easily able to accomodate them, whilst outer-JG capabilities can be postponed under adequate sized military tenders or better designs facilitate jump capability.

Aye.

I would prefer to split the functions, and have specific ships armed with Beam weapons and other ships with Missile main armament. It's more efficient that way, since then the ships won't need to carry both types of fire controls, and the Beam ships won't need to allocate tonnage for magazines while the Missile ships won't need to allocate tonnage for reactors. Avoiding duplication of functions allows each type of ship to carry more armor, shields or weapons.

I'll work on designing a Beam armed Battleship prototype.

 

[Capt. Kiwi]

Because of the increased rate of fire and diminishing returns of expanding fire control range, we're probably better off on a for-size missile killing basis to go for a quad gauss cannon and a fire control with only a x2 modifier on range - plus the full increase in tracking speed, of course.

I make it that the system as implemented, tracking our own type G missiles, could be 95% confident of destroying 4 ASMs or 2 AMMs; while an extra barrel at the cost of FC range would allow 95% confidence of taking out 5 ASMs or 3 AMMs for a similar displacement. A small difference at the moment, but as our tech improves the benefits of extended FC range will decrease while more barrels will eventually lead to a situation where we're firing so much depleted uranium that we could never need it all. Of course, these calculations don't allow for the tracking time bonus which favours the FC range a little more.

Putting technical details aside, I think we can back our GPD frigates to get us through missile fire now. It's a question of whether we have the speed, firing range or firepower necessary to back ourselves in a beam engagement. Beam armed FAC would be interesting to look at.

 

[blue emu]

Because of the increased rate of fire and diminishing returns of expanding fire control range, we're probably better off on a for-size missile killing basis to go for a quad gauss cannon and a fire control with only a x2 modifier on range - plus the full increase in tracking speed, of course.

I make it that the system as implemented, tracking our own type G missiles, could be 95% confident of destroying 4 ASMs or 2 AMMs; while an extra barrel at the cost of FC range would allow 95% confidence of taking out 5 ASMs or 3 AMMs for a similar displacement. A small difference at the moment, but as our tech improves the benefits of extended FC range will decrease while more barrels will eventually lead to a situation where we're firing so much depleted uranium that we could never need it all. Of course, these calculations don't allow for the tracking time bonus which favours the FC range a little more.

Putting technical details aside, I think we can back our GPD frigates to get us through missile fire now. It's a question of whether we have the speed, firing range or firepower necessary to back ourselves in a beam engagement. Beam armed FAC would be interesting to look at.

I'm not sure how Beam-armed FACs would work. Miniaturizing the beam weapons slows rate-of-fire, while full sized beam weapons are probably rather bulky for the 1000-ton FAC displacement. If any vessel need tonnage devoted to armor, then a beam-armed vessel does, and armor again cuts into the available displacement.

Regarding the Ammunition Tender above... I decided to junk the Gauss PD turrets, FC and sensor, and just carry more magazines.

 

[Capt. Kiwi]

I'm not sure how Beam-armed FACs would work. Miniaturizing the beam weapons slows rate-of-fire, while full sized beam weapons are probably rather bulky for the 1000-ton FAC displacement. If any vessel need tonnage devoted to armor, then a beam-armed vessel does, and armor again cuts into the available displacement.

Regarding the Ammunition Tender above... I decided to junk the Gauss PD turrets, FC and sensor, and just carry more magazines.

It depends where our tech is at. A 1000 tonne FAC can actually be faster than a 500 tonne fighter. Have lots of them, firing low damage yet long range weapons, is an interesting option as they'd be very hard to hit. Still, for now our tech might be better suited towards larger battleships that are built to take hits or to outrange the opponent.

 

[blue emu]

Hmmm...

Not sure whether our techs are sufficiently advanced to design useful Beam ships or not. Here's a 30,000-ton, non-jump Beam Battleship:

Quality NJ-B class Battleship 30,000 tons 3095 Crew 11391.4 BP TCS 600 TH 2163.35 EM 900
10301 km/s Armour 13-86 Shields 30-225 Sensors 1/28/0/0 Damage Control Rating 43 PPV 146
Annual Failure Rate: 167% IFR: 2.3% Maint Capacity 10206 MSP Max Repair 1080 MSP Est Time: 2.88 Years
Magazine 134

Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E7.8 (43) Power 143.75 Fuel Use 78% Signature 50.3125 Armour 0 Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 1,875,000 Litres Range 144.2 billion km (162 days at full power)
Epsilon R225/18 Shields (10) Total Fuel Cost 180 Litres per day

Quad 25cm C4 Far Ultraviolet Laser Turret (3x4) Range 384,000km TS: 10000 km/s Power 64-16 RM 5 ROF 20 20 20 20 20 20 16 14 12 11 10
Quad Gauss Cannon R4-100 Turret (1x16) Range 40,000km TS: 30000 km/s Power 0-0 RM 4 ROF 5 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control PD 2059 S08 96-25000 (1) Max Range: 192,000 km TS: 25000 km/s 95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Fire Control S16 192-25000 H50 (1) Max Range: 384,000 km TS: 25000 km/s 97 95 92 90 87 84 82 79 77 74
Magnetic Confinement Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1.15 AR-0 (3) Total Power Output 69 Armour 0 Exp 12%

Size 1 Missile Launcher R6 (6) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 5
Missile PD Fire Control 2053 FC24-R1 (50%) (2) Range 24.2m km Resolution 1
Size 1-G 2053 AAM (134) Speed: 66,500 km/s End: 2.2m Range: 9m km WH: 1 Size: 1 TH: 487 / 292 / 146

Active PD Search Sensor 2055 MR25-R1 (50%) (1) GPS 180 Range 25.2m km Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor 2053 MR189-R100 (50%) (1) GPS 13500 Range 189.0m km Resolution 100
EM Detection Sensor EM2-28 (1) Sensitivity 28 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 28m km

Compact ECCM-2 (1) ECM 10

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

... three Quadruple UV Laser turrets, max range 384,000 km. Six PD AAMs with 134 rounds, and a Quad Gauss PD turret. ECM and ECCM. Thirteen layers of armor. Ten shields.

 

[Capt. Kiwi]

Even at 384,000 km, you'd have a 0% to hit chance. You'd either have to be confident the battleship could shrug off any hits it took to get close enough, or go for a quantity (and speed) over quality approach.

 

[blue emu]

Even at 384,000 km, you'd have a 0% to hit chance. You'd either have to be confident the battleship could shrug off any hits it took to get close enough, or go for a quantity (and speed) over quality approach.

Zero percent? Are you looking at the Laser turrets or the Gauss PD turrets? It looks to me like a 74% hit chance against a 10,000 kps target, not including the Prix's 20% ECM advantage.

I have started retooling slipways for our new Ammunition Tengers, our new Quality class missile-armed jump capable battleships, and our new Hero III, Constellation II and Storm II rebuilds.

 

[Capt. Kiwi]

Zero percent? Are you looking at the Laser turrets or the Gauss PD turrets? It looks to me like a 74% hit chance against a 10,000 kps target, not including the Prix's 20% ECM advantage.

I have started retooling slipways for our new Ammunition Tengers, our new Quality class missile-armed jump capable battleships, and our new Hero III, Constellation II and Storm II rebuilds.

That 74% would be at a range of 100,000 km. The default distance increment displayed is 10,000 km, although you can change that to anything you like. The range you choose when designing the FC, in your case 48,000 km with a x4 modifier, is the 50% to hit range. This drops off linearly, so at 2x48,000x4 you have 0% to hit - which is the maximum range of 384,000 km in the description.

Of course, this applies to the opponent too. But if they have significantly better range and roughly equivalent speed...