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It's Tuesday and time for another dev diary on the latest expansion for Crusader Kings II; Sons of Abraham. The topics of the day are pilgrimages, Judaism and religious events. First off though, for those who read last week's diary, we've changed how the Ash'ari and Mu'tazilite traits are handled a bit. They are now much more significant, because an Ash'ari no longer gives decadence to his dynasty, and the Learning bonus for Mutazilites is correspondingly higher (currently +5).

CKII_SoA_DD_03_Start_of_Pilgrimage.jpg

Right, so, on the subject of Islam, one thing we were quite happy with in Sword of Islam was the addition of the decision to go on the Hajj, with the little adventure and the special trait you got at the end. Naturally, a lot of people thought we should add a similar thing for Christians, so that is exactly what we have done in Sons of Abraham. Christians get to choose between several different holy places. For example, Catholics can go to Canterbury, Santiago, Cologne, Rome or Jerusalem. During the journey, a regent will be appointed for pilgrim rulers and various adventures will unfold. Going on a pilgrimage costs a bit of money, and there are of course risks, but successful pilgrims will enjoy monthly piety and respect from their brothers and sisters of the faith for the rest of their lives. There could also be some unexpected benefits...

CKII_SoA_DD_03_Pilgrim_Adventure.jpg

In the same vein, we have added tons of events dealing with religious life, for Christians especially. Some are complex event chains (for example, there is one inspired by Joan of Arc) and others are simple (e.g. monks cure your illness.) There are events about relics, immoral priests (of most religions), the crusades, etc.

However, the feature in Sons of Abraham that appears to have garnered the most attention is probably the addition of the Jewish religion. Prior to the addition of the 867 start date in The Old Gods, adding Judaism to the game seemed relatively pointless due to the lack of significant Jewish rulers. In 867 though, there is indeed a powerful Jewish state; the Turkic Khazar Khaganate, which we previously represented as being of the Tengri faith, but which was historically well into the process of converting to Judaism at the time. (I think it is plausible enough that they did this in order to counteract foreign interference justified by Muslim and Christian proselytizing. Furthermore, it can be very beneficial for an empire to have a religion of its own as a vehicle for cultural cohesion and dominance.) Now, playing as the Khazars is not easy even in 867, due mostly to their powerful and aggressive neighbors, like the Pechenegs and the Cumans, but there is also a real risk of religious internal strife. In other words, it's a worthy challenge, like playing as the Zoroastrian House of Karen.

CKII_SoA_DD_03_Rabbi_at_Work.jpg

Of course, there is an even tougher challenge available, even for those who do not have The Old Gods; one last Jewish Khazar duke is still clinging on in the Saray region in 1066, vassal to the Cumans. Now, Jewish players have similar goals to strive for as the Zoroastrians; you can try to restore the ancient united kingdom of Israel and Judah, restore the High Priesthood under the Kohen Gadol, and even rebuild the Temple.

CKII_SoA_DD_03_The_Last_Khazars.jpg

Apart from the Khazar Jews, there are also the Ashkenazim and Sephardim, in the form of learned men and courtiers who can show up in your court. If you run out of money as a non-Jewish ruler, you can also choose to borrow money from Jewish merchants. If you do not want to pay them back, you can actually expel the Jews from the realm (similar to what you can do with the Holy Orders.) You will, however, stop getting the benefits of having remarkably skilled Jewish courtiers to serve in your council, and you and your descendants cannot borrow any more money from their community. Obviously, this is a pretty terrible thing to do, but it does, unfortunately, have several historical precedents.

CKII_SoA_DD_03_Jewish_Decisions.jpg

I believe that about sums up the features of this little expansion. Next week I'll go through all the stuff we're giving you for free!
 
It would perhaps be cool to have a special sort of pilgrimage, when the ruler is excommunicated, they can only go to rome to beg forgiveness, and perhaps lead to wars like the investiture crisis?
 
Sounds quite interesting and more to look forward to!


A really minor thing that could have been great is to replace the symbol of Menorah (the "lamp) with Star of David. Besides that, as already mentioned, a unqiue UI would be highly appreciated!

Keep that good work!
 
Interesting -- not much new info on the Jews, but it was nice to see that there's a new rabbi councilor model and that the priests will at least have their own unique hats (much like the Zoroastrian priests).

I'm looking forward to hearing about the 300 new events that we're to be getting -- I presume that'll be in the patch DD.
 
@Op

Sounds great, actually i should hypernventilate out of happiness. ;)

Regarding this devdiary, especially the religious events, pilgrims and crusade changes, ashkenazi and sephardim, the muslim idea schools, well everything.

Just still curious and slightly worried what will be in the patch and what DLC only (more or less on principle), as i don't like it when very vanillaish stuff is left out of patches (like retinue, adventurers),
even though i probably buy this DLC straight away, instead off a sale.
 
A really minor thing that could have been great is to replace the symbol of Menorah (the "lamp) with Star of David. Besides that, as already mentioned, a unqiue UI would be highly appreciated!

I'd really appreciate anything else than the Star of David.
First of all it wasn't as important as a symbol, second of all it's best to avoid any modern day politics and its analogies and third, wasn't the falcon the symbol in antic israel or was it judae only or am i mixing things up ? ;)
 
hmm, the Khazars are a good choice but you forget 2 other potential Jewish starts:

The Kingdom of Semien was going strong in Abyssiania in 867 and 1066.

Also, The Jews of 867 had the Exilarch. The Exilarch was a direct decendant of King David and recognized as heir to the throne of Israel. The Exilarch enjoyed great prestige among the Muslims and was the recognized Head of at least 90% of Jews at the time. Gameplay wise, The Exilarch could hold a county in the Duchy of Fars(The Exilarch was allowed to have an income drawn from the Jewish community with Farsistan being one of the major sources of money).
 
I think the Menorah is probably better because the Star of David was just as common among Muslims as it was Jews.
 
First off though, for those who read last week's diary, we've changed how the Ash'ari and Mu'tazilite traits are handled a bit. They are now much more significant, because an Ash'ari no longer gives decadence to his dynasty, and the Learning bonus for Mutazilites is correspondingly higher (currently +5).
Wow, that's so lopsided... generating no decadence is so much superior to having +5 Learning, which is the least important of the 5 stats. I'd love to see Mu'tazilite win out, but it sounds like you guys want to encourage Ash'ari's historical victory.

Christians get to choose between several different holy places. For example, Catholics can go to Canterbury, Santiago, Cologne, Rome or Jerusalem.
View attachment 94548
I'm assuming this event is dependent on your capital's distance from the target? For most Catholic Europeans, Rome is nowhere as far or dangerous as Jerusalem, so the rewards and risks shouldn't be the same.

If you run out of money as a non-Jewish ruler, you can also choose to borrow money from Jewish merchants. If you do not want to pay them back, you can actually expel the Jews from the realm (similar to what you can do with the Holy Orders.) You will, however, stop getting the benefits of having remarkably skilled Jewish courtiers to serve in your council, and you and your descendants cannot borrow any more money from their community. Obviously, this is a pretty terrible thing to do, but it does, unfortunately, have several historical precedents.
Sounds fair to me.

I believe that about sums up the features of this little expansion. Next week I'll go through all the stuff we're giving you for free!
Very nice dev diary. I'm so hyped!

I have a design for a decadence rework, but I don't know if and when we can slot it in. Not for this expansion, sorry.
...and now I'm sad. I do feel this DLC is THE perfect time to update decadence, but I understand how it may require more development and test than scheduled.
 
+5?! No decadence? Great, because muslim realms aren't OP'ed enough as is. Please, restrict invasions to once in a lifetime or only larger realms. Please...

Decadence doesn't stop Muslim invasions at all. It paralyses them during a few years every century or so but otherwise it just makes their dynasty change once in a while.

On the topic of decadence it would have been nice if decadence was at least updated to use the faction mechanic instead of magical invasions.
 
W..........

I'm assuming this event is dependent on your capital's distance from the target? For most Catholic Europeans, Rome is nowhere as far or dangerous as Jerusalem, so the rewards and risks shouldn't be the same.

?? Going into italy was an adventure, especially for everyone from north of the alpes.
Robbers everyhwere and they were not gentle and not to speak of noble lords who attacked others when they didn't like them to be around and then there are the natural dangers of crossing the alpes.
No Highway, no La Dolce Vita.



Oh wait, you wrote "...Rome is nowhere as far or dangerous as Jerusalem..".
Well that i agree. ;)



On another note, hopefully the decadence changes come soon after this patch.
 
Wow, that's so lopsided... generating no decadence is so much superior to having +5 Learning, which is the least important of the 5 stats. I'd love to see Mu'tazilite win out, but it sounds like you guys want to encourage Ash'ari's historical victory.
Decadence is really easy to control, so I'd be happy to have extra learning, I tend to have lower levels of it since I focus on martial and lead troops.
 
I think the Menorah is probably better because the Star of David was just as common among Muslims as it was Jews.

This. Using the Menorah is classy. It has always been a distinctly Jewish symbol, while the Star of David only became a distinctly Jewish one centuries after the game ended. Before that it was just a symbol of King David, who is venerated by the adherents of all the Abrahamic religions.

In the same way it would also be classy if the crescent was not used as the symbol of Islam since it only attained that status with the Ottomans, but there's hardly any viable, recognizable alternative symbol to use.
 
Decadence is really easy to control, so I'd be happy to have extra learning, I tend to have lower levels of it since I focus on martial and lead troops.

The problem with decadence is not that it is unmanageable, it's that managing it requires you to be a red-handed kinslaying maniac. And if you are that and get decadence down to zero as a result, you get hailed as a righteous and virtuous ruler whom the peasants gladly pay taxes to and your troops gladly die for :confused:
 
Sounds quite interesting and more to look forward to!


A really minor thing that could have been great is to replace the symbol of Menorah (the "lamp) with Star of David. Besides that, as already mentioned, a unqiue UI would be highly appreciated!

Keep that good work!

The Star of David wasn't used by Jews in the period, so no. The Menorah, though not an official symbol, is the best we have.
 
Interesting update!

Very, very sad to hear about the fact that the most flawed and reformworthy feature of the entire game (need I say which one?) is not getting changed.

The fact that Asharis do not accrue decadence would, to be very honest, though, be reason enough for me to get the DLC even if this was its only feature, as this (if not hardcoded) allows a few opportunities to mod ways around the current system of decadence.
 
Decadence is really easy to control...
You're missing the point though: most human players can managed decadence easily by imprisoning and executing dead weight male relatives en masse, but is that really how we should be playing a game about character dynamics? I don't enjoy CK2 much with a P2W mentality without any bit of RP.

...so I'd be happy to have extra learning, I tend to have lower levels of it since I focus on martial and lead troops.
I doubt anyone would turn down extra Learning, but as I've said, it's practically speaking the least important for most characters.