Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #82 - Voice of the People

[Teutonic_Knight_2000]

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I think I can state with confidence that devs and players alike share a love of staring at maps. We also really enjoy nitpicking and complaining about maps. While our content designers were busy making French content they noticed that there was room for improvement for the state region and city hub setup in the country. These aren’t the only changes to the map coming in 1.3 - most notably we’ve made major changes to Algeria which we’ll also talk about in a future dev diary.

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Can you spot what else is different about France besides the borders?​

Is there any Vic3 France map expert here?

Can you see any new regions and other significant changes here?

 

[Fallofthepurple]

I hope the devs will continue to add/take inspiration from some of these mods features in the future. They already did with OPB's one in the previous patch and will do in the next one implementing their version of Land Reform, and I'm glad for it.

Just to clarify: as far as I know the devs were working on their own version of Land Reform already so this is a pure coincidence. Also we lifted our version of Land Reform from another modder, as listed in the mods description.

 

[Star Seeker]

Wow this is exactly what I did not want for Victoria 3 : Railroading content through nation focus and scripted event. This is why I did not like HoI4 dlcs and recent years EU IV dlcs.

We haven't even seen the content in detail to know if there's extreme railroading yet.

 

[Rabid]

Wow this is exactly what I did not want for Victoria 3 : Railroading content through nation focus and scripted event. This is why I did not like HoI4 dlcs and recent years EU IV dlcs.

I agree with you, but I also acknowledge that there's a massive demand for this kind of content from some players. This is only the "immersion pack" so the proper "expansion" DLC will hopefully be more interesting

 

[Fallofthepurple]

Is there any Vic3 France map expert here?

Can you see any new regions and other significant changes here?

- Armagnac was removed and split up between Aquitaine and Languedoc
- Limousin and Auvergne had their provinces reshuffled and were renamed.
- Lorraine was split off from Franche-Comte
- Nord-Pas-De-Calais was split off from Picardie

- Many provinces where reshuffled between existing and new states to redraw the borders.

Germany:
- Ruhr was split off from North Rhine

 

[Miguelinileugim]

I'm glad people like Journal Entries as a system of content delivery. I still think there's plenty more improvements we can make to them though!

Shame that journals don't come in an easily reading "what could've been" form, unlike focus trees. Might be quite the limitation for modding or should you ever go around making slightly railroady (in a good way) country-specific content.

 

[Woifee]

I wonder how agitators work without youtube and social media.

 

[grommile]

I wonder how agitators work without youtube and social media.

Speakers' Corner - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[adil3tr]

Please don't have the three pre order figures. That's incredibly nickle and dime-y. I have the deluxe edition so I already get it, but it's annoying when the product is so fractured and feels hostile to most customers.

 

[Geredis]

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I think I can state with confidence that devs and players alike share a love of staring at maps. We also really enjoy nitpicking and complaining about maps. While our content designers were busy making French content they noticed that there was room for improvement for the state region and city hub setup in the country.

Speaking of map and UI issues, can we get any kind of update regarding the status of any plans to fix the flag occupation issue?

 

[wilcoxchar]

Wow this is exactly what I did not want for Victoria 3 : Railroading content through nation focus and scripted event. This is why I did not like HoI4 dlcs and recent years EU IV dlcs.

That's not what this is though?

 

[Jimboy93]

I strongly agree with this, however I don't know which interest group he would fit in the most. He was just a normal member of the working class in poverty prior to world war I. After World War I was when he started to take over Drexler's party and formed the NSDAP. Normally member of the working class are part of trade unions, but that would be illogical in Hitler's case as he banned them and formed a National Labor Union in its place. The Armed Forces wouldn't really make sense either as Hitler often had disputes with the upper hierarchy of his military, despite the fact that some members of the military supported Hitler initially (Ludendorff). The PB (which is the interest group that supports fascism in the game) wouldn't make sense either as Hitler wasn't really a member of the middle class (wasn't a shopkeeper or anything like that). Maybe Paradox could create a new interest group filled with workers that are staunchly anti-communist? Any thoughts or comments?

Depicting the rise of National Socialism is currently difficult in Vic 3 because the NSDAP was the first political party to unite different interest groups. Workers, the military, the middle class and parts of the old elite were represented in the NSDAP. I think Rise of Fascism will be its own DLC

 

[Jayvee94]

Depicting the rise of National Socialism currently difficult in Vic 3 because the NSDAP was the first political party to unite different interest groups. Workers, the military, the middle class and parts of the old elite were represented in the NSDAP. I think Rise of Fascism will be its own DLC

Perhaps it's easier to randomize the IG which Hitler would support and RESTRICT (for the purpose of narrowing down) those which he'd definitely not a part of.

 

[Gurkhal]

Really nice to see content for France coming in. Hopefully even more will come in the future.

I hope this is not considered to be in bad taste but... Vive L'Empereur!

 

[BrotherJonathan]

Depicting the rise of National Socialism is currently difficult in Vic 3 because the NSDAP was the first political party to unite different interest groups. Workers, the military, the middle class and parts of the old elite were represented in the NSDAP. I think Rise of Fascism will be its own DLC

Agreed. Fascism is so idiosyncratic as a political ideology that it probably needs special mechanics.
As a stopgap, maybe a 9th IG could be created consisting of people who are generally dissatisfied with the current system but don't have any real ideology other than directionless anger?

 

[guprad]

As a stopgap, maybe a 9th IG could be created consisting of people who are generally dissatisfied with the current system but don't have any real ideology other than directionless anger?

I agree with the creation of a new interest group. Perhaps a new interest group which seeks to unite various different interest groups under their command. This interest group will only be formed after research of political agitation and will be a pro worker and anticommunist interest group primarily (at least in Hitler's case). I think pro worker fits really well due to the various laws passed by Hitler (Including Strength through Joy) and the fascist labor charter implemented by Mussolini. However I disagree that it would be directionless as there was a clear direction the movement was heading in (a pro worker movement that opposed the Soviet Union in the case of Hitler). Hitler intentionally made the message of the NSDAP very broad in order in order to unite people from different interest groups. The direction of their anger (in Hitler's case) should be directed to enacting communist type laws like council republic and whatever interest groups were in power during the period of the Weimer Republic. I'm currently deciding whether other fascist leaders should be part of this new interest group or not (like Mussolini or Codreanu). The anger of this new interest group should be very dependent on the country's current situation as Fascism is an organic ideology and its emergence and even the rules it adopts is very dependent on the country itself and its current situation. This will probably also be very difficult to implement so I'm not sure how the devs will really implement this.

 

[Cold cook317]

I‘m quite new to Steam so do you get the pre order bonus if you activate the game via a key?

 

[Promethium555]

Hearts of Iron 4 charged $20 for a dlc that added a completely new espionage system, along with content for France, Spain, and Portugual. And Guess what? That dlc wasn't even received that favorably. Victoria 3 is now charging a similar amount for a dlc JUST focused on France. I dont really like this trend. The free changes look good though I guess.

Depicting the rise of National Socialism is currently difficult in Vic 3 because the NSDAP was the first political party to unite different interest groups. Workers, the military, the middle class and parts of the old elite were represented in the NSDAP. I think Rise of Fascism will be its own DLC

I said in another thread that political parties should have mechanics that give them agency separate from IGs for this same reason.

 

[MrRazza]

Depicting the rise of National Socialism is currently difficult in Vic 3 because the NSDAP was the first political party to unite different interest groups. Workers, the military, the middle class and parts of the old elite were represented in the NSDAP. I think Rise of Fascism will be its own DLC

I agree partially, but honestly the game is just a bit confused about how exactly IGs feed into parties and a political system generally, and fascism is just where that's most laid bare. I wouldn't really say the NSDAP united IGs, but rather won votes and support from a significant cross-section of society. The point is it just wasn't a party born of x, y, and z interest groups coming together, and often the people who would fall under those IGs were split. Sure, the NSDAP got a considerable number of votes from workers, but there was still the SPD and KPD winning votes particularly from urban and unionised workers (and, iirc, in Vic 3 the IG isn't "the workers", but "trade unions"). Catholics, whatever their class, often voted for the Centre Party. Members of the old elite also backed the DNVP. Then, of course, the Nazis turned the country into an authoritarian regime by either bullying these parties into "backing them" (Centre Party) or by violently suppressing them. I've no idea how you represent that in an IG context.

The rigidity of the IG system just doesn't allow for a good representation of a party driven by ideology, or a wider party system altogether. Ideology is there in innate preferences of certain IGs, and in the specific tastes of their leaders, but this is weak, and does not represent the way society was split, and the whole reason why one election's results is different to the next. People didn't just shuffle into IGs which then split neatly into parties which then decided political outcomes based just on their size (or weird, abstracted clout numbers). Similarly, it doesn't allow for nationalist political movements, or religious or ethnic minority movements, which also shaped politics in lots of different countries. It also doesn't explain how a Conservative Party can win enough working class votes to remain the dominant political force in the UK, which in 1921 had just 2.75m salaried (middle class) workers in a population of over 40m (and no, abstract clout doesn't do the work, it won actual, material votes). Even more, it completely ignores any bearing of international affairs and the state's international standing on domestic politics. IGs aren't interested in revanchism, or nobly winning a war, or what land their country should or should not hold in general (or at least they weren't when I last played, maybe that's changed).

It's not fascism that needs a DLC, it's politics all round. IGs are a great level of detail to have added to the game, but by themselves and a crudely added on party system that utterly relies upon them there's just no depth or nuance at all to the political side of the game for democracies. Hitler didn't belong to an IG, he belonged to (/owned?) an ideology. Voters may have an IG that it seems they should belong to and vote with, but that doesn't stop them voting another way entirely. Separatists and parties that represented specific demographic groups are different things again. The game simply needs deeper politics.

 

[dnarik]

Pararob