Tinto Maps #24 Korea and Japan Feedback

[Sutixela]

Any chance of getting to see the graphical terrain map of Japan?

Also, why are those islands wasteland?

Seems like they were already inhabited at EU5's start date.

 

[Otto_III]

Besides the name for Korean Buddhism. Will there be any mechanics relating to the rise of Neo-Confucianism in Korea and its relation to events in China?

 

[ArVass]

We don't have to prove anything to your bitter Eurocentrism (and that of the developers too). There's too much history in those countries (China, Korea, and Japan) to ignore. We could post the entire history of those countries, but it would clog up the PDX forums. Just because you're ignorant about the history and development of those Asian nations doesn't mean the rest of us are.

You just keep proving my point tbf. You:
- refuse to actually detail where you want more locations and why
- accuse me of Eurocentrism (based on what? Because I don't just blindly shout "needs more locations!" at any country outside Europe regardless if their location density is actually among the highest in the world)
- "you are ignorant" (I am not, I am eagerly looking forward to hear why 300 in Japan and 150 in Korea aren't enough)

You really do keep repeating the same buzzwords and accusing everyone and their mother of Eurocentrism, which is an understandable thing to get frustrated about (because it is a real phenomenon, just not exactly here), but if you see it everywhere (even when Japan seems to actually have a higher density than Bohemia, Poland, Hungary, and the Balkans, if I calculated correctly), you will be in the wrong.

 

[Friedrich von Deutschland]

We don't have to prove anything to your bitter Eurocentrism (and that of the developers too). There's too much history in those countries (China, Korea, and Japan) to ignore. We could post the entire history of those countries, but it would clog up the PDX forums. Just because you're ignorant about the history and development of those Asian nations doesn't mean the rest of us are.

China I agree but Japan is incredibly dense in locations as is, comparable to much of Europe. Now I haven't counted the exact number of locations, maybe it's a lot less dense then it looks to me, but people crying about Japan and Korea, two of the densest non-europan regions, not receiving more locations come off as incredibly spoiled. Eyeballing it the density looks comparable to France, which is pretty freaking good when India and China have been so neglected.

- "you are ignorant" (I am not, I am eagerly looking forward to hear why 300 in Japan and 150 in Korea aren't enough)

BTW is there a running count of the number of locations in each region? I'd like a count for western europe to compare and I don't want to have to count things out by hand if someone has done that already.

 

[ArVass]

China I agree but Japan is incredibly dense in locations as is, comparable to much of Europe. Now I haven't counted the exact number of locations, maybe it's a lot less dense then it looks to me, but people crying about Japan and Korea, two of the densest non-europan regions, not receiving more locations come off as incredibly spoiled. Eyeballing it the density looks comparable to France, which is pretty freaking good when India and China have been so neglected.

BTW is there a running count of the number of locations in each region? I'd like a count for western europe to compare and I don't want to have to count things out by hand if someone has done that already.

I have no knowledge of such a count, but I would be interested.

And yes, y'all should focus on China and India instead, perhaps

 

[MRhuman666]

China I agree but Japan is incredibly dense in locations as is, comparable to much of Europe. Now I haven't counted the exact number of locations, maybe it's a lot less dense then it looks to me, but people crying about Japan and Korea, two of the densest non-europan regions, not receiving more locations come off as incredibly spoiled. Eyeballing it the density looks comparable to France, which is pretty freaking good when India and China have been so neglected.

BTW is there a running count of the number of locations in each region? I'd like a count for western europe to compare and I don't want to have to count things out by hand if someone has done that already.

Like even compared to italy (which should get some more locations in the south because some important stuff is missing there and it was literally the peak of south italian prosperity.) japan & korea are quite good and the devs did their due diligence (mostly). Compare it basically all of Africa, which is uh... And it looks perfect in comparison.

I would say that polar and boreal locations got waay more locations and much much less strict barriers for becoming non-wastelands. There are like decently sized cities that were put under the wasteland category in central asia/sahel/middle east regions for example. Even the congo river basin was more populated than Scandinavia.

 

[magistairs]

Can someone please explain why Tamna is producing horses (albeit being a small island)

 

[vinaxel33]

You just keep proving my point tbf. You:
- refuse to actually detail where you want more locations and why
- accuse me of Eurocentrism (based on what? Because I don't just blindly shout "needs more locations!" at any country outside Europe regardless if their location density is actually among the highest in the world)
- "you are ignorant" (I am not, I am eagerly looking forward to hear why 300 in Japan and 150 in Korea aren't enough)

You really do keep repeating the same buzzwords and accusing everyone and their mother of Eurocentrism, which is an understandable thing to get frustrated about (because it is a real phenomenon, just not exactly here), but if you see it everywhere (even when Japan seems to actually have a higher density than Bohemia, Poland, Hungary, and the Balkans, if I calculated correctly), you will be in the wrong.

Are you comparing the region of Bohemia with Korea?
Bohemian territory is only about 52,000 km2, while the Korean peninsula is 222,000 km2. Seriously?
South Korea alone (currently) is twice the size of Bohemia. Please!

 

[Friedrich von Deutschland]

Are you comparing the region of Bohemia with Korea?
Bohemian territory is only about 52,000 km2, while the Korean peninsula is 222,000 km2. Seriously?
South Korea alone (currently) is twice the size of Bohemia. Please!

I counted 56 locations in Czechia, which is almost exactly the same density as Korea. You are crying about having a near identical density to a major central european country of the period.

 

[vinaxel33]

I counted 56 locations in Czechia, which is almost exactly the same density as Korea. You are crying about having a near identical density to a major central european country of the period.

"...important Central European country...", important to whom?
You're falling into the same trap: Eurocentrism.
Let's move on and leave behind that cheap Eurocentrism. Many nations were important throughout history, including Japan, Korea, and China, and I don't see them adding 100 new locations with each new revision of the development diaries, as they do with other regions and countries.

 

[Sizvahstar]

Any chance of getting to see the graphical terrain map of Japan?

Also, why are those islands wasteland?

View attachment 1316094

Seems like they were already inhabited at EU5's start date.

View attachment 1316096

Please don't tell me that is the AI answering?

 

[Sizvahstar]

I counted 56 locations in Czechia, which is almost exactly the same density as Korea. You are crying about having a near identical density to a major central european country of the period.

I wouldn't say it's far off, but no, Korea should have more:

 

[King_Potat]

Are you comparing the region of Bohemia with Korea?
Bohemian territory is only about 52,000 km2, while the Korean peninsula is 222,000 km2. Seriously?
South Korea alone (currently) is twice the size of Bohemia. Please!

For Czechia, I counted 57, with Czechia being ~79,000 km in area, having a 1.39 factor.

For Korea, I counted 137 with it being ~223,000 km in area and having a 1.63 factor.

So yes, Czechia is more dense than Korea, but this is expected as it was noted that Northern Italy and the HRE would be more dense than anywhere else on the map. The 1.63 factor is pretty comparable to most of Europe. Also much of this drop is due to a lower density in the Northeast of Korea, if we take this area out then the factor would be even lower.

Certain areas do absolutely need a higher density of locations (Sudan, China, India, Georgia, etc.) but neither Korea nor Japan do (in my opinion), and I would rather the devs time be spent there, rather than here. If anything is added, it should be a hill/mountain location on Jeju.

 

[Sizvahstar]

I don't know if DLCs should be factored in or not, but I doubt they'll rework the core of Europe and drop a DLC for it - while that has been the standard for the rest of the world, at least in EUIV.

 

[Lord_McMuffin]

This reminds me: have you considered adding a separate Tsunami natural disaster type? They have quite a different and unique way of spreading. They should likely start from certain sea (or coastal) locations, and spread through the sea tiles, affecting coastal locations to a certain distance (lowland locations might be more affected than higher locations)

Aren't tsunamis often caused by volcanoes and earthquakes which are already in game, so those disasters would sometimes cause double location debuffs? How many surprise tsunamis actually occurred in the game's time-frame that weren't reflective of a different natural disaster occurring? I think it'd be fine to have the most famous ones be represented by events like the tsunami caused by the 1700 Cascadia earthquake.

 

[Friedrich von Deutschland]

important to whom?

The HRE and everyone who has to interact with it? It’s a regionally important country same way Japan and Korea are. I’m not complaining about the location count of Bohemia, I’m saying that it’s literally the same density as Korea.

You're falling into the same trap: Eurocentrism.
Let's move on and leave behind that cheap Eurocentrism.

No eurocentrism here, I’m citing a major European tag, one of the starting great powers, and noting it has the same location density as Korea, the tag you are complaining doesn’t have enough locations and are crying Eurocentrism over, even though it is, along with Japan, the single worst example of eurocentrism in the map, given it is exactly the same density asthe specific European tag you dismissed. I’d like to compare with France but I’m not counting all those. I suspect it’s the same density as Korea + Japan though.

Many nations were important throughout history, including Japan, Korea, and China

Almost nobody is disputing this. Especially the China one. I’ve seen Korea and Japan brought up as relatively unimportant here only in comparison to China.

I don't see them adding 100 new locations with each new revision of the development diaries, as they do with other regions and countries.

and in this case that makes sense, given the locations are already very densely populated. I wouldn’t complain if they did, but this isn’t like India or China where the region had relatively low density to what it probably should. We’re already looking at European densities here, the only place to go up is German/Italian densities which are very explicitly an outlier by design.

 

[Friedrich von Deutschland]

I wouldn't say it's far off, but no, Korea should have more:

I literally ran the numbers, Korea is 2.83 times the size of Czechia and has around that many times the locations. It already has more locations, the question is: why should it have a higher density of locations given it’s already comparable to a country smack in the middle if Europe? I’ve not heard an actual case for that, just cries of “eurocentrism!” under a region which already has a comparable density of locations to Europe.

 

[vinaxel33]

The HRE and everyone who has to interact with it? It’s a regionally important country same way Japan and Korea are. I’m not complaining about the location count of Bohemia, I’m saying that it’s literally the same density as Korea.

No eurocentrism here, I’m citing a major European tag, one of the starting great powers, and noting it has the same location density as Korea, the tag you are complaining doesn’t have enough locations and are crying Eurocentrism over, even though it is, along with Japan, the single worst example of eurocentrism in the map, given it is exactly the same density asthe specific European tag you dismissed. I’d like to compare with France but I’m not counting all those. I suspect it’s the same density as Korea + Japan though.

Almost nobody is disputing this. Especially the China one. I’ve seen Korea and Japan brought up as relatively unimportant here only in comparison to China.

and in this case that makes sense, given the locations are already very densely populated. I wouldn’t complain if they did, but this isn’t like India or China where the region had relatively low density to what it probably should. We’re already looking at European densities here, the only place to go up is German/Italian densities which are very explicitly an outlier by design.

You only focused on what you wanted, but you didn't even consider the areas of Bohemia and Korea, because otherwise you'd agree with me, hahaha.
Check out the surfaces and then we'll talk.
Eurocentrism at its finest, hahaha.

 

[Cri11e]

Some stuff like Gwangju in Korea is in wrong place!

Downloadable folder with Korean Maps from the Korean ''Ministry of Land Infrastructure and Transport'' in English

The original place of THE NATIONAL ATLAS OF KOREA Please scroll to the bottom and check this government website! There is no doubt historical maps here as well

 

[vinaxel33]

I literally ran the numbers, Korea is 2.83 times the size of Czechia and has around that many times the locations. It already has more locations, the question is: why should it have a higher density of locations given it’s already comparable to a country smack in the middle if Europe? I’ve not heard an actual case for that, just cries of “eurocentrism!” under a region which already has a comparable density of locations to Europe.

If Korea is 2.83 times larger than the Czech Republic, and the Czech Republic has 57 locations, that means the Korean Peninsula should have 161 locations, not 150 as someone claimed.
Let's not even talk about China...