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Tinto Talks #67 - 11th of June 2025 - Shinto and Shogunate

Hello, and welcome to another issue of happy Wednesdays Tinto Talks. Today, we will be taking a look at the mechanics for Shintō and the Shogunate.

Let’s start with the religion. In EUV, it is part of the Buddhist religious group:
Shinto Tooltip.png

Shinto Panel.png

As you can see, Shintō has two currencies: Honor and Purity. Besides being modified through events and the actions we’ll talk about in a bit, one thing to note is that fighting in battles will decrease your purity (due to the fact that blood is considered impure). Having high purity will allow the accumulation of honor, which will be able to be used for other actions, while having low purity would make people perceive you as an Oni on Earth, which may also have its benefits.
Purity.png

The different actions in the panel are ways of regaining purity, from the more simple ones of spending prestige or money for a cleansing ritual or a pilgrimage respectively, to the more expensive ones of offering a work of art or even the life of the ruler.

Besides these actions, the religion also features an International Organization, where countries can interact with the different factions present there. At start, there are three factions present: the Imperial Court, the Shogunate Court, and the Religious Sects, although more factions can appear in the future related to some other religious followers…

Each faction has some actions available, at the cost of honor, although not all the factions will be available to all countries. For example, if you are at war with the current Shōgun, you will not be able to access the actions of the shogunate court, for obvious reasons.
Shinto IO.png

Expansion Action.png

Demand Extra Payment.png

Appease Temples.png

Some of the actions of the Religious Sects will allow the country to interact with the mechanics of other Buddhist religions, but you will have to wait for future Tinto Talks for an explanation on those.

Shintō also gives access to some unique advances, like for example:
Matsuri.png

Nanto Rokushu.png

Shinbutsu.png

Kagura.png

Hachiman Worship.png

Let’s now move to talk about the Shogunate, which is present in the game as an International Organization:
Shogunate Tooltip.png

Shogunate.png

There is currently a bug with the ruler’s name not appearing in the proper order, it will be fixed.

There’s two types of special statues in the Shogunate International Organization: the Sugo and the Emperor (or Emperors in this case, more on that on Friday). The Emperor is the one that is “technically” the ruler of Japan (although the one actually in charge is the shōgun), while the Shugo are provincial governors, giving them some nice bonuses.
Shugo.png

There’s an action for the shōgun to either grant or revoke the governorship of a province, while the individual clans also have the option of basically becoming a de-facto shugo if they manage to establish enough presence in a particular province.
Shogunate Laws and Actions.png

However, these actions will only be available as long as the Shogunate itself has the appropriate law, and will be disabled once it centralizes control.
Residence Law.png

Becoming the leader of the Shogunate is something that is not granted, and instead it has to be earned. The first step to take is to obtain the backing of the imperial court, with the action Become Shōgun of the Imperial Court faction in the Sintō IO:
Become Shogun.png

This will grant a modifier directly to the ruler (not the country), and a casus belli to declare war on the current leader of the shogunate. If the war is declared and won while still having the same ruler, a special peace treaty can be enacted forcing the change of leadership.

And that is all for today. Tomorrow we have the ‘Behind the Music of Europa Universalis V - Composing the Grandest Score’ video, and on Friday we will be back with a further look at flavor content for Japan (and the Japanese clans), as well as the situations of the Nanbokucho and Sengoku Jidai. See you there.

And remember, Wishlist Europa Universalis V now!
 
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Black and white is quite a common combination for flags in Japan, that's why there's so many of them.
Yeah but that's mainly because of practicality in battle as it was the emblem that was important to recognize not the colour and black of white(or vice versa) makes the best contrast, but outside of battle they did use many different colours as such even if it's not a priority I wish you'd have more colour variety
 
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One question: does these actuins have cooldown period, and if so, how long would that be?
Also, does the amount of stuffs player can click and get scales up, and if so, with the player or with the target nations?
Thanks in advance.
Yes, they have various cooldowns depending on the action, and they scale according to your own country.
 
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Will another one of the religous factions be the jesuits(being the front the christians) since they would be heavily involved early on in asia and japan?
 
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If the interaction to become Shogun is in the Shinto religion view, doesn't that mean that non-Shinto daimyo can't become Shogun? What if a daimyo converts to Christianity, like Omura Sumitada?
The position of shogun is something tied directly to the authority of the court. A Christian Daimyo would need to find alternative ways of getting control of the shogunate.
 
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yeah why not
If it's fan fiction, why not? But those "historical" population figures are extremely unusual. Based on the population records in the Heian period dictionary "Wamyō Ruijushō (和名類聚抄)", the population at that time was estimated to be around 5.8 million, which makes the figures even more unusual.
I assumed that the development team referenced the data from Mcevedy & Jones' Atlas of World Population History for the Japanese census, but even considering the error rate of that book, the population numbers have actually increased 9 -> 11. I am very curious whether there are any historical records that mention the figure of 11 million. :^|
 
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Is the Yamato dynasty "immortal"? It would be really awkward if the descendants of Amaterasu and literal Gods on Earth and leader of the Shinto faith dynasty would go extinct
 
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Hello,

I've been following the recent Q&A on the forum with great interest, and your answers have sparked a couple of follow-up questions regarding how some of Japan's more complex historical situations might be handled in-game.

1. On the aftermath of an Imperial Restoration:

Your response clarified that if the Emperor were to take direct control, the Shogunate IO would be dismantled, not taken over. That makes perfect sense.

This got me thinking about the historical precedent of the Kenmu Restoration. After overthrowing the Kamakura Shogunate, Emperor Go-Daigo didn't rule without a military apparatus. Instead, he established his own regional military governments to manage the samurai class. The most notable of these were the Ōshū Shōgunfu (Mutsu Shogunate) in the north, where Kitabatake Akiie assisted the young Prince Yoshinaga, and the Kamakura Shōgunfu in the east, where Ashikaga Tadayoshi supported Prince Narinaga.

So, my question is: Could the game mechanics support a scenario where, after a successful Imperial Restoration and the dismantling of the Ashikaga Shogunate, the Emperor could establish new, loyal military commands?

This could be a fascinating gameplay path. Instead of just removing the Shogunate system, the player achieving restoration would face a new challenge: building a new, Emperor-controlled military structure from scratch and trying to prevent these new "Imperial Shogunates" from becoming as powerful and independent as the one they just replaced. It would represent the historical difficulty of a civilian court trying to control a warrior class.

2. On the mechanics of a "split" Shogunate:

I found your solution for the two Emperors of the Nanboku-chō period (representing it as a general interaction with "the Court") to be very elegant.

That leads me to a related question about a split Shogunate. In several instances, Japan effectively had two rival shogunates vying for legitimacy. This happened during the Kannō Disturbance, the Ōnin War, and for decades after the Meiō Coup. During the Ōnin War, for example, both the Western and Eastern camps had their own "Shogun," appointed their own officials, and claimed to be the legitimate government.

My question is: How might the game mechanics represent a situation with two competing Shogunates?

Would this result in two parallel Shogunate IOs? For example:

  • Could both the Eastern and Western Shoguns appoint different daimyō as the Shugo (Military Governor) for the very same province, creating a "contested title" situation?
  • Would a player be forced to align with one Shogunate, with each having its own set of vassals and authority mechanics to manage?
  • How would such a "dual authority" conflict be resolved in-game? Would it purely be through military conquest, or could one Shogunate's legitimacy diplomatically collapse if it loses the support of key daimyō or the Imperial Court?
Understanding how the game might model this ultimate political chaos, where the very definition of "legitimate government" was fractured, would be fascinating.

Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions and engage with the community!
Both ideas are interesting, but not sure if they could be easily tied with the current system. However, I'll save this for future reference.
 
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Do you have a suggestion? The sun does imply divinity to me and is quite neutral as symbol
The most representative religion icon in EUIV is the clasped hands, which is a gesture that religious believers all over the world will have.
But it seems that it has been given to estate, so EUV is not going to give it to religions?
 
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If it's fan fiction, why not? But those "historical" population figures are extremely unusual. Based on the population records in the Heian period dictionary "Wamyō Ruijushō (和名類聚抄)", the population at that time was estimated to be around 5.8 million, which makes the figures even more unusual.
I assumed that the development team referenced the data from Mcevedy & Jones' Atlas of World Population History for the Japanese census, but even considering the error rate of that book, the population numbers have actually increased 9 -> 11. I am very curious whether there are any historical records that mention the figure of 11 million. :^|
9.75 is not so far from 11.3 as to warrant 8 question marks, plus for 1400 they're already saying 12.5, so for a time in between the number should be somewhere in between, no?
 
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9.75 is not so far from 11.3 as to warrant 8 question marks, plus for 1400 they're already saying 12.5, so for a time in between the number should be somewhere in between, no?
9.75 Million is not so far from 11.3 Million <- ????????

Once again, the figures in McEvedy & Jones's work (1978) are significantly inflated. When compared to the population figures in existing studies, there is a difference of 1.5 to 2 times. And I have already presented sources to support my argument...
And again, a difference of over a million is by no means a negligible figure. I am not sure what you mean by that.
 
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There is the option to abdicate, but not ruling from the shadows, as you control the country, not the character.
It would be an interesting option for the Emperor to have, though. Instead of abdicating, they could receive some kind of effects related to becoming "Cloistered." Perhaps some kind of religious benefit, in exchange for a debuff to something secular?

I imagine it would also be something you would want to limit based on the character's age, since it would be odd for a 20 year old emperor to decide to become a monk... then hold onto power for the next 60 years.

That raises another question, actually, that's more general to the game. Can a regent seize power? In EU4, you can extend the regency over and over again. Would it be possible in EU5 to have the option for a regent to usurp power outright? It would likely involve some kind of minor disaster, but it could be a good way to simulate real instances of regents stepping over weak, ineffective, or young rulers to take power for themselves.
 
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