1942 scenario

[bosman]

We (Mr_BOnarpte & I) announce 1942 scenario continuation.

Here You can ask questions about all things related to 1942 scenario.

If there are any volunteers wiling to join us, please PM me or Mr_Bonarpte and tell us what area would You like to work on.

Rules for scenario:

1. 18 NOV 1942 as startdate (1 NOV 1942 in case more people vote for this date)
2. updated provinces setup (buildings, resources, other possible things) to 1942 historical situation
3. standard majors selectable as in 1941 scenario
4. updated countries production, techs and starting resources

main 1942 file
View attachment 0_gc_1942.zip

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

I don't remember any 1942 scenario for AoD. Do you mean a specific mod for it? I remember people talking about making one just before Operation Uranus but I don't think they got around to it. If you are still up for making such a scenario, I can help.

 

[bosman]

That''s what i'm talking about. Even if it wasn't completed, would still be very helpful and save much work. By now, i made some scripting for political map and frontline borders plus some minor changes. I based on 1941 scenario to make things easier. The real pain is, that any unassigned provinces cause error. In HoI 1 it was much better, because they just didn't belong to any country, but what can we do...

If You are likely to help me doing this scenario, i would be happy.

One thing makes me a bit hesitant - keep using original HoI2 map and make scenario only or some other (mod like) ? I personally like E3 map, although it's not completed yet, but coding all those provinces seems a real hell

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

That''s what i'm talking about. Even if it wasn't completed, would still be very helpful and save much work. By now, i made some scripting for political map and frontline borders plus some minor changes. I based on 1941 scenario to make things easier. The real pain is, that any unassigned provinces cause error. In HoI 1 it was much better, because they just didn't belong to any country, but what can we do...

I don't think they posted any work. Not even sure if the people that came up with the idea are still active in these forums. Good to know you've done some work on it. Have you also edited the frontlines in Japan?

If You are likely to help me doing this scenario, i would be happy.

I can help editing the map as well, also with the OOBs once I have the right information. Could even create some events or make some specific AI files.

One thing makes me a bit hesitant - keep using original HoI2 map and make scenario only or some other (mod like) ? I personally like E3 map, although it's not completed yet, but coding all those provinces seems a real hell

Personally I like the original HoI2 map, but I guess it mainly/entirely depends on what most people want. I guess we can start editing the original map, then the E3 map if people want us too.

 

[bosman]

Yes, i think You are right, that it's better to start with original map. I didn't edit frontline in China, as it's almost the same as in 1941 scenario. In fact, i did play cheating game to form frontlines in Europe and Africa.

Sure we may put some additional events and honestly it's going to be the easiest part of this project. I think, that we should mainly focus on units setup, because it's vital for scenario to be playable. Things like countries resources, techs may be based on 1941 scenario for now, of course with some most important corrections.

What startdate would You prefer ?
I have 2 proposals:

1. 18 NOV 1942 - a day before "Uranus" starts
2. 1 NOV 1942 - in critical phase of el Alamein battle

I would personally vote for second date, because it's also critical for Battle of Stalingrad and almost for Guadalcanal battle. Like peak point of Axis conquests

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

This will probably muddle the waters, but I would say the first proposal as the eastern front, IMO, is far more important then any other front. (Both for AoD and IRL). Maybe if others who are interested in this mod proposal voted, we could see what is more popular. Being British, I would like to believe el Alamein was so pivotal in the war. But, IMO, it really wasn't. The late-1942-to-early-1943 campaign of Stalingrad required far more men and equipment then that of the entire campaign of North Africa from 1940-43.

Either way I cannot imagine the front lines would be much different between the two dates.

I can try and start editing the front line in China, and Asia as a whole. I'll be using Wikipedia as my source though.

 

[bosman]

El Alamein was not so important compared to Stalingrad, especially considering losses and operational consequences for losses, but it doesn't change the fact, that it was very important. Even if African theatre was going to be lost anyway, it might be more complicated, leading to failed negotiations with Vichy and stronger Axis resistance (just speculating).
However, there is another detail. Operation "Torch" took place at 7/8 NOV. Having several days gives at least some chance to prepare.

For Stalingrad it's not that bad moment too. Most intense fights are almost over and the final confrontation was about to come, but the Germans were too late with last reinforcements.

Since You are right, that the situation doesn't differ to much in both cases considering fronts, units and so, we may practically leave it for voting or decide later.

I will have to search for informations about German and Soviet units along nothern fronts at that time. I have quite good sources for Stalingrad's surroundings, but for historical flavour it's not enough.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

El Alamein was not so important compared to Stalingrad, especially considering losses and operational consequences for losses, but it doesn't change the fact, that it was very important. Even if African theatre was going to be lost anyway, it might be more complicated, leading to failed negotiations with Vichy and stronger Axis resistance (just speculating).
However, there is another detail. Operation "Torch" took place at 7/8 NOV. Having several days gives at least some chance to prepare.

What'd you mean? IMO the importance of Vichy France pales in comparison to the losses inflicted at Stalingrad therefore making the battle much more pivotal. Coupled with the psychological affect the battle had on German morale both at the front and at home.

Since You are right, that the situation doesn't differ to much in both cases considering fronts, units and so, we may practically leave it for voting or decide later.

Good good, I am just editing most of Asia. Basically giving most of it to Japan Should Japan be in the Axis alliance for the blueprints or would that screw the game up as it would be at peace with the USSR. Also Japanese forces occupied East Timor, but were not at war with Portugal. How should we simulate that?

I will have to search for informations about German and Soviet units along nothern fronts at that time. I have quite good sources for Stalingrad's surroundings, but for historical flavour it's not enough.

I will need to do a lot of research about Japanese, US, British, Siamese, Chinese, Australian, New Zealand and potentially Soviet forces in Asia!

Also, should we edit the revolt risks of territories? I find it stupid that Japan can occupy most of Asia and still have 0% revolt risk everywhere, surely there was a partisan effort against Japanese forces! Also, IMO it's silly that Germany only has 1% revolt risk in all occupied provinces. But I guess we'll get onto this once we have the map and the OOBs done.

 

[bosman]

It's quite hard to explain what i exactly mean discussing importance of those operations especially, when my english is not good enough, but i will try
Most simply saying it's a matter of turning points on both african and eastern fronts. In fact the Germans definitely lost initiative on eastern front after Kursk. Of course we can assume, that Stalingrad was in fact more important and it doesn't matter so much. When You look at at african front it's obvious, that el Alamein+"Torch" is what Stalingrad for eastern front was.
We may agree, that eastern front was generally more important, but i think that african was strategically quite significant.

OK, enough for this

I can tell You, what i have done so far:

1. borders/frontlines in Europe
2. alliance (some corrections needs to be done though)
3. forts lvl1 on french coasts
4. some resources tweaks

As for far east, it's going to be much work to do.
If You ask about revoltrisk, yeah, i mod it already for China, but it's rather for testing - final setup should probably be more radical.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

It's quite hard to explain what i exactly mean discussing importance of those operations especially, when my english is not good enough, but i will try
Most simply saying it's a matter of turning points on both african and eastern fronts. In fact the Germans definitely lost initiative on eastern front after Kursk. Of course we can assume, that Stalingrad was in fact more important and it doesn't matter so much. When You look at at african front it's obvious, that el Alamein+"Torch" is what Stalingrad for eastern front was.
We may agree, that eastern front was generally more important, but i think that african was strategically quite significant.

OK, enough for this

Your English is very good! I cannot even speak a second language so am I impressed by your English skills. Ok, I think I understand your argument but still disagree. But as you said, we should leave it.

I can tell You, what i have done so far:

1. borders/frontlines in Europe
2. alliance (some corrections needs to be done though)
3. forts lvl1 on french coasts
4. some resources tweaks

As for far east, it's going to be much work to do.
If You ask about revoltrisk, yeah, i mod it already for China, but it's rather for testing - final setup should probably be more radical.

Ah ok.
Regarding 3, do you mean coastal forts? Which provinces have you placed them? The Atlantik wall project only really took off in 1943, in 1942 there had only been defences built on the French naval bases. Good idea though.
I'll tweak some resources for Asia then as well. I'm tempted to give Indonesia some manpower as it seems ridiculous that it has none at all!
I have nearly finished borders and frontlines in Asia. I just need to find out what islands in the Pacific were in Japanese hands in November 1942. Guadalcanal is a tricky one as I'll have to place both Japanese and American units in the territory. Is that ok?

 

[Titan79]

Just stopping by to say that I'd also be in favour of a 18/11/1942 start date .

 

[bosman]

Here are those forts in France (green coloured):



They are probably, where they should be, but please correct me, if You have better knowledge about them.

Guadalcanal is a tricky one as I'll have to place both Japanese and American units in the territory. Is that ok?

Good question. This problem besets me with Stalingrad itself. You know, the Germans should control almost all the area, but still Soviets can't be out...
We could eventually try events. If i am correct, we can use a trick, when one side occupies specific province, but till the combat keeps going there, and there are also enemy units in this province, it's treated like non conquered. It should work like with revolts i suppose.

Take a look at the map of Europe:


Provinces with yellow theme are those which should probably change the owner.

As for Japan being in Axis, it seems OK. What about Soviet Union in Allies then ? I think i saw, that being in 2 alliances simultaneously is possible, I have to check this.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Very nice pictures, although Cherbourg doesn't have a beach so an amphibious attack cannot be launched there, but we could make it a beach. And also, what should we do about the naval bases? If the 1936 scenario is the most accurate representation, then Bordeaux and Ghent should also have naval bases (and Nantes and Cholet should not etc). I would just place the coastal forts at level 1/2 on the provinces with naval bases (and beaches), so Brest, Dunkerque etc).

The Soviet Union cannot be in the Allies as it is leader of the Comintern and that is too ahistorical IMO anyway. It is not possible to be in two Alliances at once on AoD unfortunately. We could make an event giving the Allies military access to the USSR, as the Americans used Soviet air bases to launch strategic bombing attacks later in the war, but this was very limited.

EDIT: Some screenshots of my own:

I still need to do China, or have you done it already bosman as you say you edited the revolt risk there?

Just stopping by to say that I'd also be in favour of a 18/11/1942 start date .

Thanks for the vote

 

[Titan79]

Thanks for the vote

On a second thought, I think that it would be even more interesting if the start date would be moved by some days (i.e. 22/11/1942) when the 6th Army had already been encircled. This way the German player would need to think outright about a relief plan.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

On a second thought, I think that it would be even more interesting if the start date would be moved by some days (i.e. 22/11/1942) when the 6th Army had already been encircled. This way the German player would need to think outright about a relief plan.

That's a good idea, we're still editing the provinces and OOBs so we could do that, if others want that date.

 

[bosman]

On a second thought, I think that it would be even more interesting if the start date would be moved by some days (i.e. 22/11/1942) when the 6th Army had already been encircled. This way the German player would need to think outright about a relief plan.

I prefer 18.11.1942, because it gives more balanced moment. As i wrote before, i would even prefer earlier startdate, because of balance in African theatre, but 18 NOV is actually quite good. I would like to keep decisive clash to be available for player.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Also, if anyone knows any important military or political information for November 1942 anywhere in the world, please let us know.

 

[Marshall18]

Great initiative!
Can't wait to try it out

 

[vitality]

Great idea chaps, I'll be watching this eagerly.