371) FEEDBACK: Scenario setup problem: kingdom of croatia

[Brownbeard]

historical: kingdom of croatia

you got a few things wrong, first the names:

varazdin - ok - but it was croatian, not hungarian, in fact it was under hungarian occupation only during the war of succesion between 1092.-1102., even the county of medjimurje was under petar kresimirs rule, and that is north of varazdin

krizevci - ok - but why does it contain an island (krk(veglia in italian) perhaps) and thus become a coastal province? same as varazdin, should be croatian in 1066.

zagreb - ok

senj - ok

split - ok, but petar kresimir was king of dalmatia, in fact, there were two important church councils held in split in 1060. and in 1063.
byzantium only regained control of several dalmatian cities during the war of succesion, this happened in 1091. they lost them in 1098. to venice, and kalman, king of hungary, croatia and dalmatia liberated them in 1105.

veglia - italian name for krk which somehow ended up in krizevci county, i suggest 'trsat', too early for 'rijeka'

zadar - ok, but, same as split, was under croatian rule, except it was taken in 1202. by the 4th crusade and handed over to venice after two years of looting

usora - the city of usora in where you marked the rama province, i sugges you rename usora to 'donji krajevi' or 'jajce' since, matijaš korvin founded the duchy of jajce after kingom of bosnia fell to the turks

rama - the city of rama is where you marked the hum province, it might be best to name it 'vrh bosna' or just 'bosna', maybe 'srebrenica' since, matijaš korvin founded the duchy of srebrenica after kingom of bosnia fell to the turks - petar kresimir ruled bosnia, not byzantium in 1066.

hum - name it to 'rama', since hum is in the ragusa province, or perhaps 'visegrad' - petar kresimir ruled bosnia, not byzantium in 1066.

ragusa - your pick, the city of dubrovnik is there, but the rest of the province is the land of hum, and dubrovnik became important in 13/14.ct.

zachlumia - the lands of zahumlje are between the rivers of neretva and cetina, that would place zahumlje in the southern part of the split province, a much better name would be 'duvno', and it should be catholic, since it was the core of croatian catholicism

duchies: if you can rectify this, it would be nice, but it isn't really important, and i suggest a new one

duke of croatia: veglia, senj, zachlumia, usora
duke of zara -> duke of dalmatia: zadar, split, ragusa
duke of bosnia: rama, hum - fits
NEW: duke of slavonia: zagreb, krizevci, varazdin

this was the traditional historic organisation from 13.ct to 1526.

 

[Demetrios]

Unfortunately, changes on the map are all but impossible...

 

[Brownbeard]

i understand that changing the graphics would be too much, but krizevci should not be coastal, this can easily be edited in the neighbours array, same as ownership

there should be an archbishop of zara, bishop of split who is a vassal of king of croatia

bishop of ragusa, vassal of archbishop of split

king of croatia should be count of zadar, count of zachlumia

dmitar zvonimir, his co-ruler should be duke of croatia, count of veglia, count of senj, count of usora (currently, he simply moves towards his 12-yearold mrs. in the arpad court), or senj and veglia shoud be his vassals

if a duke o slavonija could be added, he should be count of zagreb, krizevci and varazdin (since the arpad instated almas at the same title in 1092.) or he should have krizevci and varazdin as vassals

and there should be two counts in rama and hum who are vassals of petar kresimir, bosnia should not be a duchy yet.

 

[kurtbrian]

Do you have online sources bvacking your claims?

Can others confirm this is the way it is supposed to be?

 

[Grosshaus]

New duchies or other titles can't be made and province names can't be changed. All changes to scenario setup must fit the game mechanics in addition to being historical. Bear in mind that archbishopries=duchies many ways in CK.

 

[Brownbeard]

a few links

http://www.kessler-web.co.uk/History/KingListsEurope/EasternCroatia.htm

http://www.hr/darko/etf/et01.html#dukes

http://members.tripod.com/royalcroatia/kresimir4.htm

http://www.magma.ca/~rendic/chapter4.htm

http://members.tripod.com/royalcroatia/zvonimir.htm

the bottom right map, i've been trying to find a bigger one for hours, all sites that had it no longer exist, faulty links, hrv123 posted it in one ck thread long ago, one of those in which the information were gathered and with the lists of playables

http://shop.skolskaknjiga.hr/shop/p...D3PT83G&mwsid=IK3UE6P1Z5TNFA86QXYE4NB4U4B5ZA6

a larger one should be somewhere on the forum, but i can't find it

 

[unmerged(27913)]

I totally support this. I myself wanted to make similar proposal and then I went on search and found this.
Also I don't understand why new duchies can't be created...you can easily incorporate it 1.03 patch...you just tie them(66% thing ) and implement CoA of Slavonia and Dalmatia and thats it.
Duchies(they were actually Kingdoms but nevermind) of Slavonia and Dalmatia both existed from 11th and 12th century respectively. So you in CK currently have Duchy of Zara(Zadar) which did not existed in the timeline CK is happening. It was created in the 2nd half of 18th century by Austrian Emperor who finally took it aways from Venice.

My suggestion would be(with slight changes):

Duchy of Croatia(Senj, Usora, Zachumlia)
Duchy of Slavonia(Varazdin, Zagreb, Krizevci)
Duchy of Dalmatia(Zadar, Split) - change from Duchy of Zara
Duchy of Istria(Veglia, Istria)
Duchy of Bosnia(Hum, Rama)
Republic of Ragusa - Ragusa or Dubrovnik should be a republic like Veneice, also it was never part of Serbia or Bosnia so controlling Ragusa cannot be a condition for founding of Kingdom of Serbia.

I believe these changes are really trivial and extremly easy to implement. So please(!!!) do it.

 

[Grosshaus]

I totally support this. I myself wanted to make similar proposal and then I went on search and found this.
Also I don't understand why new duchies can't be created...you can easily incorporate it 1.03 patch...

The problem with new duchies is the EU2 converter as they would have to be assigned counterparts in EU2 as well. Too much work for little gain, if you want more duchies you must resort to user made modifications.

 

[Brownbeard]

here's what you do.

1. appoint a random south slavic count to varadzin(btw. itz varazdin)

2. appoint dmitar zvonimir trpimirovic as count of krizevci(already existing character), make him vassal to king petar kresimir of croatia

3. appoint two random south slavic catholic counts to rama and hum, vassals of petar kresimir of croatia(no duke of bosnia yet)

4. appoint count of usora to be count of zagreb

5. appoint count of zachlumia to be count of senj

6. petar kresimirs royal demesne should consist of zadar(capital), zachlumia and usora

7. make the duke of zara into archbishop of zara(catholic),make him vassal to king petar kresimir of croatia

8. delete the redundant bishopric of zara

all fixed, compatible and historicaly correct.

 

[Cat Lord]

I am not sure what happens to this one.

I'll log it.

Cat