377) BUG: Landless Liege keep nagging for land

[unmerged(5361)]

Landless Liege keep nagging for land

This may be reported, but just in case.

Playing as a count, if your duke loses all land he will ask you to relinquish your title. So far so good..but, if you reject he will keep pestering you every month ad infinitum.

Shouldn't the Duke 'die out' after the first rejection and his Ducal title disappear until its created again?

 

[unmerged(12746)]

This may be reported, but just in case.

Playing as a count, if your duke loses all land he will ask you to relinquish your title. So far so good..but, if you reject he will keep pestering you every month ad infinitum.

Shouldn't the Duke 'die out' after the first rejection and his Ducal title disappear until its created again?

He shouldnt be able to revoke your title if he is no longer your leige, sounds like a bug. If he is your leige with no land then it seems to be wad, your leige can and should (under these circumstances) demand your lands (what else can he do?).

If he lost all his provinces then the conquerer didnt have enough vassals or land in your particular duchy to claim the duke title. Sounds like a quirk of circumstance really.

Send out the assassins and be done with it.

 

[unmerged(5361)]

Send out the assassins and be done with it.

I 'DIE'd him 5-6 times in the end, but some cousin would pop up in his stead until his court ran empty.

I agree it could be wad, but there should a time limit (or somthing) on how long a landless Duke can keep his title.

Also, my loyalty to this pestersome fool was at 0.00 and the tooltip says I can declare war on my Liege, however the declare war button on the action menu was greyed out.. wad or bug? or misinformative tooltip?

 

[unmerged(12746)]

I 'DIE'd him 5-6 times in the end, but some cousin would pop up in his stead until his court ran empty.

I agree it could be wad, but there should a time limit (or somthing) on how long a landless Duke can keep his title.

Also, my loyalty to this pestersome fool was at 0.00 and the tooltip says I can declare war on my Liege, however the declare war button on the action menu was greyed out.. wad or bug? or misinformative tooltip?

I say no to the time limit, suppose one of his other vassals accepts his usurp demand, or he is in line to inherit a duchy? A claim is a claim and a title is a title, if the char has it and isnt dead he shouldnt have a time limit on his ability to excersise his rights under said claim.

I dont know about the DOW on a landless leige, never seen it. I think in future we need to be able to break alliegence with our leige when we get below a certain loyalty level. That would eliminate your issue as he wouldnt be able to revoke your title once you broke from him, but he, and his heirs would rightfully retain a claim on it.

 

[Grosshaus]

He shouldnt be able to revoke your title if he is no longer your leige, sounds like a bug. If he is your leige with no land then it seems to be wad, your leige can and should (under these circumstances) demand your lands (what else can he do?).

But wasn't he still a liege in this scenario? For 1.02 (or was it 1.01, can't remember) landless lieges were given the ability to try to revoke the title of one of their vassals and the AI was made to auto-accept those requests. This was to make it harder for kingdoms to fall, i.e. Germany by loosing one province. So I think the way to deal with this would be to tell the AI to pester a second vassal if one rejects, i.e. if the one who he had in mind is played by a human player.

 

[unmerged(12746)]

But wasn't he still a liege in this scenario? For 1.02 (or was it 1.01, can't remember) landless lieges were given the ability to try to revoke the title of one of their vassals and the AI was made to auto-accept those requests. This was to make it harder for kingdoms to fall, i.e. Germany by loosing one province. So I think the way to deal with this would be to tell the AI to pester a second vassal if one rejects, i.e. if the one who he had in mind is played by a human player.

Yes he is still the leige, and he is acting correctly to demand the land. So yes its WAD, but the issue then becomes what happens if he dosent have another vassal to revoke the title of ? He floats in perpetual space, and so do his heirs, until he gets a province via some inheritence or your acceptance of his demand.

Either way that could take years, and a lot of spamming to happen, in addition the titles he retains cant be taken by you (if he is a landless duke, and you usurp the title how exactly do you then take it?) you can create the title if you take the provinces, he already has the title. (let me correct this, I dont think you can claim the title, you shouldnt be able to the Duke already exsists)

 

[Grosshaus]

How about removing titles of a noble that hasn't held a count title (=demesne) in the last year or something?

 

[unmerged(12746)]

How about removing titles of a noble that hasn't held a count title (=demesne) in the last year or something?

Thats fair. I think it might also be reasonable to assume, in the case of a Duke or count, that if they cant claim a home demense that thier title should go to thier respective leige at the time its lost, but the family keeps a claim.

Although I dont have a specific reference now, Im sure there is precedent for a leige taking a disputed title to resolve the claimant issue. If this guy dosent have a leige (say the Duke of Brittany to start in 1066) then I say your solution should prevail. But in cases where the claimant had a leige, the title should always defer to the higher rank.

 

[Jos Theelen]

How about removing titles of a noble that hasn't held a count title (=demesne) in the last year or something?

Why not immediately?
And what happens with him? Will he move to another court? If he is somehow removed from the game, maybe killing him immediately could be also a solution. The death penalty for people "pretending" to be a duke.

 

[Grosshaus]

Why not immediately?
And what happens with him? Will he move to another court? If he is somehow removed from the game, maybe killing him immediately could be also a solution. The death penalty for people "pretending" to be a duke.

No. Won't happen.

Or might, if you can find a better way to keep kingdoms from falling apart after the demesne of the king is taken As I explained above the liege is designed to revoke a title from his vassal and the vassal to accept that, the problem arises when player is the vassal and can refuse.

 

[Jos Theelen]

So the situation can only happen, if the king/duke has only one vassal, the human player. If there are more vassals, you would expect that the king/duke asks and takes the land of another vassal, an AI-vassal.

If the king/duke has only the human player as a vassal and no lands for himself, maybe the title should go to that vassal, the human player.

 

[unmerged(12746)]

If the king/duke has only the human player as a vassal and no lands for himself, maybe the title should go to that vassal, the human player.

I dont know Jos that seems pretty generous, bucking for an emperor title are we?

If you had a claim to his title I can agree, but I think it should always defer to the leige. This will only work with Dukes, but if he was a vassal of the king of France and you were that Dukes only count, I dont think the King would be to thrilled about you getting the bump in rank. If the Duke didnt have a leige then the next step should be to see who has a claim on his title, if its only one person (in a perfect scenario) that person should get the title. If more then one has a claim (on the ducal title mind you) then it should defer to who has the most land within the duchy and can that person create the title on thier own?

If we get to this point, and you had 66% of the provinces anyway, yeah you should get it. If you didnt, and the Duke didnt have a leige, and he dosent have an AI count to revoke a title of then his titles should be removed from him. This way the title comes back into play for everyone, yet his dynastic line should keep a claim on all lost titles, somewhere down the line one of his heirs might get a province.

 

[Neutrino 123]

Don't have the liege wait a whole year before disappearing unless he doesn't try to revoke titles at such a high rate. See my AAR.

 

[Cat Lord]

Logged as a bug.

Cat