AI Tributary

[Black_Rider]

Hi all, I play some latest version of CK2+ and I want to ask you guys do you ever see AI making a tributary ? Because I don't see this at all. Which is quite sad, because in earlier bookmarks this is a really good tool to make country stronger. Dunno this is a mod specific question but I want to ask it here.

 

[Darth Cloaked Guy]

Tributary wars are absolutely critical for any tribal ruler intending on becoming a dominant regional power. Not for the money, but for the prestige.

 

[Black_Rider]

Tributary wars are absolutely critical for any tribal ruler intending on becoming a dominant regional power. Not for the money, but for the prestige.

The problem is I don't see AI making tributaries at all, even as tribal ruler. Should I see this in diplomacy screen ? Because if player has a tributary it can be seen in his diplomacy screen.

 

[Darth Cloaked Guy]

The problem is I don't see AI making tributaries at all, even as tribal ruler. Should I see this in diplomacy screen ? Because if player has a tributary it can be seen in his diplomacy screen.

I understand, I was just saying why this issue is important is all.

 

[Ecnahc]

Has this only been observed in CK2+ or Vanilla as well?

 

[Castellan7]

I don't know about now, but I used to see the AI doing it all the time. They were constantly declaring tributary wars on anyone they couldn't directly conquer. There was even a situation where the king of Armenia was a tributary to the duke of Armenia.

 

[Darky]

Byzantium constantly trying to make tributaries in Alexiad time-frame instead of reconquering their lands from Rum since release of Horse Lords.

 

[Rylock]

I don't know about now, but I used to see the AI doing it all the time. They were constantly declaring tributary wars on anyone they couldn't directly conquer. There was even a situation where the king of Armenia was a tributary to the duke of Armenia.

Yes, the issue I was having with the tributary CB is that -- even though it was reduced to an ai_will_do of 0.01 -- often that was the only CB that would be available on a target, and thus the AI would employ it constantly. So currently the AI is restricted to only have it available to non-nomads when the realm is emperor-tier or when the realm is quite large (100+ realm size) and the ruler is ambitious/greedy.

If there are other criteria to apply, I could open up the restriction some more, but my impression has been that it's not really a useful CB...and that the AI will often screw itself by making tributaries out of lands it really should be conquering. If there are specific conditions under which that isn't the case, conditions I can teach the AI, I'm willing to do it, but not if it results in the situation once again where there are nonsensical tributes everywhere.

 

[Darth Cloaked Guy]

If there are other criteria to apply, I could open up the restriction some more, but my impression has been that it's not really a useful CB...and that the AI will often screw itself by making tributaries out of lands it really should be conquering. If there are specific conditions under which that isn't the case, conditions I can teach the AI, I'm willing to do it, but not if it results in the situation once again where there are nonsensical tributes everywhere.

How useful it is is directly related to how useful prestige is to you. One victory in a tributary war nets you almost enough prestige to upgrade a tribal holding by itself. I would allow it for tribal AIs, because it is astonishingly useful way for one single-county tribe to rise above its neighbors and establish itself as a dominant power.

 

[Rylock]

How useful it is is directly related to how useful prestige is to you. One victory in a tributary war nets you almost enough prestige to upgrade a tribal holding by itself. I would allow it for tribal AIs, because it is astonishingly useful way for one single-county tribe to rise above its neighbors and establish itself as a dominant power.

Part of the problem, however, is said tribals would attack to gain a tribute and then not be able to expand or form a kingdom. I don't think I would just want to blanket turn it on for all tribals -- a one-time prestige gain could just as easily be gained through other means.

 

[Darth Cloaked Guy]

Part of the problem, however, is said tribals would attack to gain a tribute and then not be able to expand or form a kingdom. I don't think I would just want to blanket turn it on for all tribals -- a one-time prestige gain could just as easily be gained through other means.

A very good point. What if you only allowed tribals of the same religion who can't subjugate each other (as in, same religion, different de jure kingdom or after subjugation war) do tributaries? That way the single-county conquests would still happen unchanged

 

[Wandering Sentinel]

I doubt it'd be that much of a problem if you could occasionally demand land from a tributary instead of gold, or annex them in some other way if you're a higher tier ruler than them, but then there'd be the problem of balancing how often this could be done and for how much land at a time so that it isn't too easy for players or the AI to blob by using tributaries to siphon land off larger, weaker realms consistently until the ruler of the realm receiving the tribute dies.

 

[TheStrangerOrg]

Yes, the issue I was having with the tributary CB is that -- even though it was reduced to an ai_will_do of 0.01 -- often that was the only CB that would be available on a target, and thus the AI would employ it constantly. So currently the AI is restricted to only have it available to non-nomads when the realm is emperor-tier or when the realm is quite large (100+ realm size) and the ruler is ambitious/greedy.

If there are other criteria to apply, I could open up the restriction some more, but my impression has been that it's not really a useful CB...and that the AI will often screw itself by making tributaries out of lands it really should be conquering. If there are specific conditions under which that isn't the case, conditions I can teach the AI, I'm willing to do it, but not if it results in the situation once again where there are nonsensical tributes everywhere.

hmm im playing an old version, but the ai is using the tributary CB perfectly. If they can conquer they do it, otherwise they do the tribute thing. i did mod the tribute cb to no longer have a range restriction, but i doubt it should matter.