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I mean if I was a modder and some company offers me the chance to release a joint DLC I would jump in
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The mod adds more value and flavour to the game with 1000+ unique buildings for free. The mod adds 20.
I usually roll my eyes and move on whenever one of these cosmetic dlcs are announced because I can always count on mods to provide an even better experience. However, when the author of the original building mod mysteriously stops updating their mod a year prior and all of sudden a stripped down version of it turns up on the official steam page of the game as a paid DLC, then we have a big problem here. Because this has wide implications, such as PDX preventing the modder from updating the original mod to protect the paid content from any competition.
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It's not that weird that Paradox acts as Art Patrons to amazing content from talented developers.
We're extremely humbled and grateful to our modding community, and I personally have played with the mod you're describing yourself. We're not trying to kneecap our most passionate and creative fans, I promise. If the mod isn't updated - that's unrelated to anything to do with us.
What I can say - is that as an ex-modder for XCOM 2 back in the day - modding is generally a very thankless job - that often has people giving you flak for being creative once - and not keeping every passion project you've ever made up to date. Be kind to your local modder, and give them the benefit of the doubt. They're heroes.
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A front for selling a handful of 3D assets for crazy stupid prices, something PDX has been shamed over on multiple occasions. I do not doubt your or the individual developers' intentions but it is obvious that branding it as a mod inspired DLC allows PDX to dish out more of these low effort content for the price of an event pack that would otherwise require more time and effort to develop.
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That mod is a previous iteration of Medieval Arts which has effectively been abandoned for years by this point, and has nothing to do with the Content Creator Pack. The actual version of the mod is found here and I can assure you it is very much active and not abandoned. I'm working on a big update as you read this
Of course this doesn't mean that fears that mods may be turned into paid products are not valid, they're such an important part of the game's experience and its community that I understand people's apprehension at the thought of them being taken away. However this is really not the point of Content Creator Packs: they're products of a markedly higher quality than anything modders may be able to make on their own free time. As Aj has previously mentioned for example, they would never have made this product without Paradox's support and financial incentive.
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Honestly my only problem with this dlc is that it's fine to charge for your 3d models, they look cool you did a great job. But the buildings themselves should not be included on it. It has been implicit creators pack are cosmetics and I personally have no issues with them being cosmetics and we could have as many as possible. But the buildings should part of one of the TBA next chapter dlcs or part of the free updates they release along dlcs.
Because well I'll buy their yearly dlc bundle for the same price and have to pay for content it would be included in the chapter separately. So it's basically saying chapter now costs $50 + as many creators pack with content we decide to release this year which it's also unclear. If $50 it's not enough anymore a more consumer friendly and straight up way would be to raise the price of the chapter, but we know that would backfire when you do it for 2 years in a row. So PDX, not you, it's being kinda scammy.
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Also, just to close the argument.
That version of the mod added over 1000+ unique buildings, true, but they were for the most copy-paste versions of one another, the vast majority of them without any unique description or effects, wildly unbalanced, and certainly without any 3D model. Now of course you may not be personally interested in the cosmetic side, that's fine, but as a developer that's where most of the effort and quality go, that's what takes time and skill, and where the value of the product lies.
That version of the mod was outdated and hadn't received a proper update in years, having been rendered obsolete by the newer version of the mod I linked above. It also was not - and I can't stress this enough - anything even remotely similar to the Content Creator Pack in either quality or content. It was just another thing.
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i dont understand whats difficult to understand about the concept of commissioning an artist. do we all have to be such a bunch of gamers about everything
its not a paid mod. if you think its a paid mod, this is because you are getting angry at something without fully understanding it. you are experiencing a knee jerk reaction. this is a common response and one all of us are guilty of at some point in our lives, myself included. you are not stupid for being wary - companies are not your friends and paradox is a business. if it WAS a paid mod, youd be justified in getting angry about it, because todd did a real stinker that one time and youd hope that would have been a lesson for the entire industry. however, as mentioned, it is not a paid mod, so at a certain point, the hostility reflects badly on all of us
if i were either of these creators i think id probably find myself put off from ever working with paradox ever again, and i just think thatd be a crying shame because both of these lads do such great work
its not a paid mod. if you think its a paid mod, this is because you are getting angry at something without fully understanding it. you are experiencing a knee jerk reaction. this is a common response and one all of us are guilty of at some point in our lives, myself included. you are not stupid for being wary - companies are not your friends and paradox is a business. if it WAS a paid mod, youd be justified in getting angry about it, because todd did a real stinker that one time and youd hope that would have been a lesson for the entire industry. however, as mentioned, it is not a paid mod, so at a certain point, the hostility reflects badly on all of us
if i were either of these creators i think id probably find myself put off from ever working with paradox ever again, and i just think thatd be a crying shame because both of these lads do such great work
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All the reasoning you said it's wrong.
First, I've never said it's a mod.
Second I made clear the problem is selling the buildings not the 3d art of said buildings. Game has plenty of special buildings with generic 3d models.
Third if the artist was commissioned to do the 3d model and create the buildings idea and their bonuses, anything related to the building themselves it's a PDX problem which it's being criticized. Creators pack have been cosmetics so far, they can commission as many artists they want to do cosmetics and it's fine as I'm concerned.
Fourth if they want to commission artists to come up with the buildings ideas, their bonuses and whatever else that it's not cosmetics it's fine, add it to one of dlcs that will be in the chapter 4. It's not like chapter 4 will be free, right?
So far every single special building or duchy building in the game it's part of a free update or part of one of the dlcs sold within chapters, not a dlc on top of the chapters. That's the whole problem imho. If there isnt any sort of push back they can start selling creator packs from whatever other content in the game. MaA creator pack that includes 6 new MaA units, economic creator pack that includes new economy buildings and all of those are on top of the chapter and it's undisclosed the amount of said creator packs they can release in a year which makes the yearly cost of having a full ck3 game to $50 + how many creator packs with content they want to make and that's shady.
I dont want to pay $50 + 5 + 5 +5 as many times they want. If money is the issue, make chapter $60, $70, whatever pricing they think it's but then it would be fair. Ok this is how much costs to have all this year worth of content (that's the whole premise of the chapters, buying all the year's content). Because keeping this new business of content being sold as creator pack it's unknown how much it's gonna cost to reach the end of 2025 with all the content in the game.
Edit: a decent analogy is:
you go to a car wash and it says full car wash = $20 and it includes vacuum.
next week you go there and it says full car wash = $20, vacuum + $10
Im not complaining about paying for the vacuum or the guy doing vacuum should be paid or not. the service was part of the full car wash that I pay for, which costs the same but now part of it it's being sold on top of it. If nobody says anything...
next week: full car wash = $20, vacuum front seat + $10, back seat +$10
and go on... in practice it's the same of full car wash = $30, then full car wash = $40 but being shady about it.
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I agree that the expense is mounting this way, but they have not given any indication of this being replacement for content. Instead, the expansions have increasingly included more content and these dlc’s are on top of it.
So yes, we should be weary of shrinkflation of the chapters. So far however, they have been consistent in their delivery of chapter content in terms of quantity. Work takes time and resources (including manpower and opportunity cost). So, if content would otherwise not be made, I welcome it as extra outsourced content, that I can choose not to buy.
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How many of those special buildings wouldnt be included in the game in the future? Unknown. Legacy of Persia added over a dozen special buildings to the region as part of the free update. If they were sold previously in a creators pack they wouldnt be in the free update. How many of these buildings could be in a dlc in the future? Unknown.
Since january 2021 it's the second time something that it's not exclusively cosmetics it's being sold outside of the yearly bundle. First time was friends and foes which it's an event pack, there's no buildings, not much of anything besides feuds behind the paywall.
First pack: Royal Court, Northern Lords, Fate of Iberia and cosmetics Fashion of the Abbasid Court - It's hard to know when it was released, I bought this in jan 2021.
Friends and Foes: which it's mostly an event pack - I bought in september 2022 (content released with it: https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Patch_1.7)
Second Pack: Legends of the Dead, Roads to Power, Wandering Nobles, cosmetics Couture of the Capets - I bought this in february 2024
Monuments Creator Pack: Special buildings and 3d models (cosmetics). It's kinda dlc for Wandering Nobles - february/march 2025. Cost? unknown.
Third Pack - march 2025? Probably same $50 than last year.
Unknown amount of creators pack that may or may not have content besides cosmetics until next chapter in 2026. It can be 0, it can be half dozen. Who knows? It can all be cosmetics, it can all be content. How much will they cost? How much of them could be added in specific expansion for their regions? Cost of the content ignoring cosmetics? Unknown.
So from a somewhat consistent pack, we go to a pack plus an undisclosed amount and unknown cost of content in creators pack on top of the pack.
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You ought to really increase the level of content in these CCPs to lead away from value relative to the free mods Vs price argument. At current level CCPs leave much to be desired for their price and look like mods being sold...
What is more important different point, increasing pricing for annual DLC with the depth of content comparative or even lower than last chapter would be a terrible idea.. will not buy subpar gameplay additions that cost higher than base game in itself.
What is more important different point, increasing pricing for annual DLC with the depth of content comparative or even lower than last chapter would be a terrible idea.. will not buy subpar gameplay additions that cost higher than base game in itself.
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