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Aussie DD Game 2(Mike as Germany)

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Hey guys I'm looking forward to tommorows game, been a long time since I played last. :)

Some bad news, a scan on Friday has turned up another tumor, its on the left hand side of my neck. Not sure yet if they can cut it out or not. But its bad that its spreading despite the Chemotherapy. Anyways keeping positive is important :)
 
I hope they can remove it, at lest it should be in more accessible spot to remove or treat.

Game time tonight is 7pm?
 
Cyas at 7 tommorow, I guess I have at least 1-2 more sessions before war. Though I'm hoping Japan will wait till close to historical like everyone else has this game. :)

Will have a nap tommorow arvo so I'm awake. :)
 
Good session very intense!! Well I reckon UK would be good for a coop player..very hard to run 2 theatres at once!!

Mike something with invasions...you can no longer retreat your transports like you use to be able to(before you could stop an invasion by moving your transports away). Now you must wait the couple of days your troops have to wait after an attack(same time penalty as ground troops)...If you see that little red thingy arrows around where you give your orders it will tell you when you can retreat your ships.
I found out that the hard way also. I was telling you guys about it in another session. Its logical as when you think about it you cant instantly just run away with your troops in board. It makes you stay in the sea zone for a couple of days after the attack. You ships suffer the same penalty as ground units do after an attack. A new addition to doomsday.

Unless of course you have he grey line retreat problem I had in which case it will reset after we restart the next session.

You guys really caught me by surprise with the main part of the Italian Navy in the North Sea. Did they start the war outside the Med?

Anyways till tommorrow....
 
Was awesome session.

On the retreat just at then end thos transports had already done there itme for the delay penalty (no red symbol) after the land combats had ended. I retreated from the carrier battle you were having with munster and should have been in the next seazone in about 10 hours. It was about 3 days later when your BB fleet turned up right at then end there. The retreat ETA says Jan 2nd with no year in there. Same with other fleet off dover it wont move either. Anyway it should be fixed when we reload like your prob and all will be good.

The Italian Fleet did exist the med prior to war as munster wanted to fight out in the atlantic instead of the confines of the med, and help with an invasion if i attempted it. I did warn munster that it will leave him vulnerable in the med, but we shall see how he does. Certainly added some spice to the war around the UK, with 4 Italian CV's.

On the invasion i was not going to invade the UK but then munster said you had lots of forces he could see in alexandria, malts, tel aviv and cpyrus. Lots of land forces and airpower, and thats only what we could see with intel, so i expect it was more. When he kept saying as france went on you had heaps of forces there and once he joined all the airpower you had in the region i saw an opotunity to exploit your lack of airpower and maybe land forces in the UK.

After France feel in 2 weeks and then vinchy fired a week later i massed every Germany plan i could find and some minor allied bombers. Reorganised troops, airfields and fleets to prepare for an onslaught. I didnt rellay think i would get ashore but main gold was to force UK to keep larges force in the UK. With the Italian fleet supporting and 3 fleets of german subs and 16 transports the invasion was planned. The mina problem as major would know is bombers dont bomb where you want to straight way. I have figured it out and thats why i kept switing my attack until i found out how bombers would support the invasion. Its random when you bomb prior to the battle starting, but once your invasion begins the bombers will target that province as major so nearly found out. My 6 moutain troops invading in Norwhich beat of 3 candians, then a HQ and Armour, then 2 more armour, motorised, then the same HQ and armour came back again and then 3 moutains. Between all this i was ment to land at 23:00hrs, major got fresh troops to the battle i think 2 hours befroe i land and secured the province, with 12 armour waiting of shore to rush into the port. Had that armour landed, well i think it would have been curtains for the UK.

My stukas supported by the luftwaffe did a brillent job over the UK and shashed all resitance that came to the beaches. In the air to air battles the UK desperation showed as a number of fighter and bombers units were totaly destroyed in the air with the intense battles. Had germany built a few more mountains troops the invasion would have worked. It would have alos worked had we not lost out para at cardiff, we should have attempted this first, but like i siad we couldnt get the bomber to bomb were we wanted too. If we had the para we would have secure the province instantly after we won the battle at norwhich and the Panzers would be ashore.

So good lessons here. Ive learnt invasions ca indeed be very sucessful now with airpower if you do the battle first, the airpower will go to the province being invaded after a short while. I think major might have tohught this as well, as when i was contanstly bombing the UK he didnt panick and bring back alot of airpower as he knew from previous games this makes invasion tough. But now it works. So airpower is the key element now, good to know if your the UK, you cant send lots of forces overseas like airpower or tanks, you need them at home.

The Italian navy did well, in numerous skirmishes around island with thel uftwaffe provinding aircover and mauling th royal airforce. How ever after the failed cardiff operation, we dedcided norwhich was the best option. And like i said above, Germany won countles battles on the beaches but the troops wouldnt unload quick enough. Having armour going to beach is not enough, you need air countrol, as armour with no org is no good. Had i organised better i owuld have destroyed that armour on the retreat with stukas, but to much was going on and it slipped my mind.

Around norwhich the UK lost 1 CV in battle with the Italian fleet and numberous italian CVs were damaged through airpower. The luftwaffe came to the rescue to fight of the British bombers and fighters. Germany lost 3 transports i think, with 1 mountain divisions drowning. They will be remebered for there herousim and there many victories on the shores of norwhich.

This was probably the most intense session of HOI 2 or DD that i can recall. The Russian front is great, but its not life and death in one battle like it is with the UK. The UK knows should germany get tanks ashore its basicaly over. The air, land and sea battles were all desperate affairs with both sides know the stakes. Awesome session, really awesome.

Well played majors, was best series of battles i can recall for a long time. I bet you didnt really expect me to invade, i normaly dont. But this time i thought what the hell. Really good game. Wonder what next session will bring, still a few months till winter, time is still on our side for the moment.

Next session Tuesday 7pm
 
Actually it wasnt so much lack of troops which allowed you to get so close. It was the fact the the Canadians were on the beaches and my troops I had set to reserves did not react to their defense...obviously as they didnt recognise them as there own. So I lost a day waiting for them to start moving..when that didnt happen I had to move them manually into the province so they no longer moved at double speed. So instead of taking 1 day to make the province they didnt arrive for 3 days(the day lost waiting and the 2 days it took to march). A lesson here for all those watching if you want units set on reserve to react right away make sure you have some of you own land units in the province. If everything thing went as planned I should have had 12 divisions there within a day which would have really hurt the org of your Mountain troops. I learnt with my little foray with Joel that to invade the UK you need at least 4 paratroops and Marines. Otherwise it is a waste of time.

The end of the batle was less then 2 days ago so it wouldnt surprise me if those ships couldnt be moved yet. If they are bugged it will fix on reload if they are not bugged you will still be unable to move them until they pay their time penalty(not sure if its 2,3 or 4 days) Really have to playtest this to see how long. All I know is you can no longer retreat from an invasion by moving the transports without waiting for them to pay the time penalty as ground units do. I found this out myself the hard way.

My defenses in the UK were the minimum required to hold maybe could have done with a few more. But yes I have significant troops in Africa but I also have lots of troops in the UK.

Good game and good try...it was close.

The Italian fleet caught me completely off guard as it was still under Itaian control and I thought it was in the Med.

I was also unaware that the Italian paratrooper was lost at Cardiff. Thought it retreated to a boat.
 
If the Italians are still in the Atlantic come Dec 7th 1941 I will sail a CV fleet over and sink them before I take on the IJN. Can't have him playing about in the allies lake now can we...

In US news we completed the designs for the new generation of aircraft carrier the super fast and super powerful Essex class. Grand Admiral King was so pleased with the design that the USN ordered 20 to be built over the next 4 years. Along with new models of CLs and DDs. Production has started on the P-51 Mustang Fighter and the first squadrons are due of the assembly line by October. Already some 8 squadrons on naval bombers are completed along with their p-38 Lightning escorts. News on the theoratical front has Robert Troux close to an important breaktrhough that could revolutionise aircraft propulsion... :cool:

Still under a 25pc peacetime penalty which blows.
 
Major you do not understand what happened, i will explain it simply so your simply mind can understand. :rolleyes:

1. The ship did not have the delay red symbol. They had already waited there alloted time.

2. They were part of the Carrier battle you were having with munster. I retreated them as soon as the delay peroid was over, to reducem unster stacking penalty.

3. Those ships should have retreated and been in the next sea zone with in about 10 hours or less.

4. The ships are frozen, they will not move just like the problem you had. They will never complete there retreat.

5. Becuase the fleet wouldnt move while retreating you have engaged them long after they should not have been there. Same as you didnt want me to engage the South Afrcian fleet as it wouldnt move.

6. Problem is now, those ship wont retreat for a few hours a you have to wait the minium time. Those ships should have far away, but were frozen, with the ETA saying Jan 2nd. Its only August, you cant tell me it takes 6 months to retreat.

Now becuase major had a reload to avoid his problem and its a bug, i want compensation for my lost subs and also any TPs and troops i lose. Im not going to put up with losing forces due to bugs. I dont want my good game soured becuase of crap like this. I will work out the exact cost in supplies, as compensation.
 
Out of interest major how many fighters or interceptors did you lose over the UK is those Airbattles. From what i could see you lost between 4-6 fighters/interceptors and 1-2 bombers. There were more there very sick and nearly destroyed, you nearly lost about 12 air groups in that fighting if you hadnt ended it.

Air superioty missions now seem to work better, with more of the air groups sticking together and going to the air battle straight away once it happens.

Do you know why your fighters and intercepotors got chewed up so badly. Was it numbers, org which did it, as i didnt notice. Just ive never seen German planes do so well over the UK, when ther Radar, the Airbase bonus, AA and so on. Seemed to work very well for some reason. All i did was them on Air superioity and they did the rest.
 
mike8472 said:
Out of interest major how many fighters or interceptors did you lose over the UK is those Airbattles. From what i could see you lost between 4-6 fighters/interceptors and 1-2 bombers. There were more there very sick and nearly destroyed, you nearly lost about 12 air groups in that fighting if you hadnt ended it.

Air superioty missions now seem to work better, with more of the air groups sticking together and going to the air battle straight away once it happens.

Do you know why your fighters and intercepotors got chewed up so badly. Was it numbers, org which did it, as i didnt notice. Just ive never seen German planes do so well over the UK, when ther Radar, the Airbase bonus, AA and so on. Seemed to work very well for some reason. All i did was them on Air superioity and they did the rest.
Click to expand...


I lost 1 bomber...but it was nothing of your doing. I set them to orders of zero org before retreat due to the situation. Hence they kept flying when they were low on strength. The bomber I lost was a single lone bomber I had lieing around. I stil lahve all 16 fighters and interceptors in the UK that were there. An yes they were cut up but still alive when i retreated them myself. I was monitoring my planes health at the time.
 
mike8472 said:
Major you do not understand what happened, i will explain it simply so your simply mind can understand. :rolleyes:

1. The ship did not have the delay red symbol. They had already waited there alloted time.

2. They were part of the Carrier battle you were having with munster. I retreated them as soon as the delay peroid was over, to reducem unster stacking penalty.

3. Those ships should have retreated and been in the next sea zone with in about 10 hours or less.

4. The ships are frozen, they will not move just like the problem you had. They will never complete there retreat.

5. Becuase the fleet wouldnt move while retreating you have engaged them long after they should not have been there. Same as you didnt want me to engage the South Afrcian fleet as it wouldnt move.

6. Problem is now, those ship wont retreat for a few hours a you have to wait the minium time. Those ships should have far away, but were frozen, with the ETA saying Jan 2nd. Its only August, you cant tell me it takes 6 months to retreat.

Now becuase major had a reload to avoid his problem and its a bug, i want compensation for my lost subs and also any TPs and troops i lose. Im not going to put up with losing forces due to bugs. I dont want my good game soured becuase of crap like this. I will work out the exact cost in supplies, as compensation.
Click to expand...

The reason I dont understand is your ships were not under attack when you ask them to move hence you wouldnt get the endless grey line indicating a retreat. You were still attacking my land forces at Norwich when my Carrier TF retired and all my planes had landed. It was after this you ended the land battle..you did not retreat from combat as I did. I assumed your ships were still waiting for the time penalty to take place before they could move. 6 months sounds excessive but reload of the game should indicate a time period. If it was bugged like my ships were it should be all corrected. If its not bugged you still will not have command of your ships.
I dont know how you could have retreated while the carrier battle was raging because if you stopped attacking my land units the transports would have to wait a few days before they could be ordered to move anyway.
We need to look seriously at the naval combat situations as it seems to be causing a lot of problems. At the first sign of a problem we need to save the game. I dont know the exact time frame of the battles when they stopped etc etc.
All I know is when we reload the ships will be unbugged and if they are still unable to have control or you have the read arrow thing next to their orderrs thingy thats the way its meant to be. Hover over the red thingy it should tell you how long before you can move them. If its 6 months as you say then its bugged.
All I know is invasions are very dicky now without complete air and sea superioty.
For your information I lost 3 ground units on those those South African transports and 2 additional transports. This was after I asked you to save and Munster came flying in with his planes.

The only thing we can do is load up the session....wait how many hours we need for the minimum time in battle and then I will retreat if they are still bugged.

I cant think of any other solution....load up the game in single player tell me what you see?

Its going to get bigger with the Japs and Yanks.
 
The simple fact is that you are both still laboring under the mistaken belief that ordering a retreat will mean the engagement ends. Naval combat smply does not work that way. We have factors of speed, positioning and range.

Speed is the closing range of the enemy fore and if it is greater then your fleet you cannot retreat, as the enemy can close.

Positioning is about order of battle and this can mean surrounding the enemy or psotiong in such a way to prevent retreat.

Range is the most important as some ships can continue to attack well after others are out of contact.

In a battle this can mean if one side has speed, positioning and range they can effectivly with a skillful admiral engage a fleet tilll it is destroyed or the attacking fleet calls it off. Under some circumstances it is impossible for a fleet to disengage from battle, just look at the Spanish Armada hwne the Spanish were unable to break off and were wiped out or the Battle of Jutland when the Germans only escaped cos of the fog and were totally outmanuevred by the RN. The game may well with this endless grey line be simply its way of showing the hopeless engagement. For how well would your fleet retreat if its being atatcked by wolf packs, surface ships and aircraft? the likelyhood of escape is almost nil...I maintain that these so called bugs are nothing of the sort and are in fact reflections of the hopeless engagement scenario....

You guys are in effect syaing that if I'm commanding a DD against a BB at 11.5km that if I retreat I should be able to simply disenegage? Which is absurd if you consider the BB has a 30km+ range... Even if it takes the DD only 1 hour to get out of range it is plainly ridiculous to assume the BB wouldn't have been able to hit it. Naval warfare isnt like land or air war were attacks and retreats are easy, naval warfare is at all times fluid and confusing and to treat it as 2 fleets meetng ina sea zone and shooting at each other till one retreats is a gross oversimplification, fleets are constantly moving even whilst engaging in battle. Even CVs are required to move hence why so many pilots were forced to ditch when they couldnt find their carrier.
 
BB You do not understand what is happening. Ships should not be in the same sea zone they were 10 days ago when a port is 2 days travel. That was my problem...fine that the ships can be engaged in retreat but not much use when they can have unlimted attacks against them becasue they will not move from their current sea zone. They will be destroyed in 3 days. Once a retreat is ordered they should move to the next sea zone. Being attacked on the way is fine if thats the way its meant to be. But to never arrive in the next sea zone is the Bug we have here. It always corrects on reload and if it was meant to happen like this it would not fix itself on the reload. You will find out shortly yourself when you get in the war.

Unlike myself, Mike did not raise the issue when he had a problem. The only time Mike raised it was when my Battleship fleet engaged his transports. Once again I must stress the importance of hi-liting a problem when it appears otherwise the other players are not aware of the issue. Becasue Mike did not raise it as an issue at the time I have no idea if I have caught him in a bug or just caught his ships by surprise while they were waiting time penalty after an invasion.

To eliminate any unneccessary confusion we must pause the game soon as you have a problem..grab a save and rehost if neccessary or the enemy has to manually retreat to free up you ships.
 
Bumble Bee said:
The simple fact is that you are both still laboring under the mistaken belief that ordering a retreat will mean the engagement ends. Naval combat smply does not work that way. We have factors of speed, positioning and range.

Speed is the closing range of the enemy fore and if it is greater then your fleet you cannot retreat, as the enemy can close.

Positioning is about order of battle and this can mean surrounding the enemy or psotiong in such a way to prevent retreat.

Range is the most important as some ships can continue to attack well after others are out of contact.

In a battle this can mean if one side has speed, positioning and range they can effectivly with a skillful admiral engage a fleet tilll it is destroyed or the attacking fleet calls it off. Under some circumstances it is impossible for a fleet to disengage from battle, just look at the Spanish Armada hwne the Spanish were unable to break off and were wiped out or the Battle of Jutland when the Germans only escaped cos of the fog and were totally outmanuevred by the RN. The game may well with this endless grey line be simply its way of showing the hopeless engagement. For how well would your fleet retreat if its being atatcked by wolf packs, surface ships and aircraft? the likelyhood of escape is almost nil...I maintain that these so called bugs are nothing of the sort and are in fact reflections of the hopeless engagement scenario....

You guys are in effect syaing that if I'm commanding a DD against a BB at 11.5km that if I retreat I should be able to simply disenegage? Which is absurd if you consider the BB has a 30km+ range... Even if it takes the DD only 1 hour to get out of range it is plainly ridiculous to assume the BB wouldn't have been able to hit it. Naval warfare isnt like land or air war were attacks and retreats are easy, naval warfare is at all times fluid and confusing and to treat it as 2 fleets meetng ina sea zone and shooting at each other till one retreats is a gross oversimplification, fleets are constantly moving even whilst engaging in battle. Even CVs are required to move hence why so many pilots were forced to ditch when they couldnt find their carrier.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the history lesson BB you have no argument from me in this regards. As you will shortly find out yourself anything that corrects on reload is a bug. Anything that does not is not a bug. What we have here is a genuine bug which Joel , Mike, Gunny and myself have had to put up with. How we avoid that in the future is the big question. I cant remember anytime in modern history where a fleet was completely wiped out in real life. Surely a fleet stuck in a province for 10 days is a bug. If we let it go it might stay like that for years.
 
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