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mr.sorge

Sergeant
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Apr 20, 2005
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  • Darkest Hour
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
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  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars II
ok, here are my initial findings:


beta version from sat 29.08 with hotfix - checksum = BVWL
without the WIF Platinum Graphics pack



playtest summary:
UK starts with a large land force considering its low IC in 36. Those locked GAR units at home and the add. colonial forces in africa represent a very hefty burden for the supply system. Even with a complete production focus on supplies I couldn't keep up with the demand (slider move to FM and int. minister switch to +5% IC one) most of the time. Besides that initial prod. run of supply convois there was nothing else I could afford to produce.
Another huge blow were the smear campaigns launched at me.
From jan to dec 39 UK was hit with 4 succesful ones out of 16 attemps. ITA and GER tried to launch one against me almost every month.
4 smear campaigns = over 13% dissent = even lesser IC
Even the first gearing event didn't provide the IC necessary to break me out of this devils circle.
This situation was then pretty much unmanagable and did materially effect my pre-war build up ( = no unit production possible).
The negative supply production was that high that I had to trade blueprints for supplies and scratch every bit of available ones at the world market.
Even then it wasn't enough, it took the "abdication of king edward" event dec 36 to lessen the burden and start to spend IC on reducing dissent in the first place.

suggestions:
- move those UK garrisons and colonial forces (and the supply burden they come with) a few years up (38-39) when UK can afford them IC supply wise -> could be done via an event
- further tweaking on the intelligence system required as smear campaigns are quite devestating for the UK pre-war


intelligence:
- starting level = 0 across the board -> uk and other major powers should start with a significant higher level than minor powers
+ maybe as a comparison here are the numbers of the core mod for the majors
Code:
core 36
eng = 7
ger = 8
sov = 8
fra = 5
ita = 6
jpn = 8

- wrong description: "Counter espionage" should read "Decrease Intelligence"


research

- infantry doctrine -> human assault tech description missing


research team - missing pic:
- royal military college sandhurst
- blechtley park
- cammell laird shipyard


production:
- money = unknown string wanted

- consumer goods = wrong mouse-over summary (+dissent?! rate when production>demand)




units:
- missing unit icon for transport planes (westland lysander) - those two you get in the beginning


events:
- event description for formations plan 36-38 should read "The second choice
allows us to form more airmen" instead of " more sailors".



add. files:
- missing excel file for limits of formation plans


will run further tests with the latest beta version from sun 30.08
 
aight, will do for the next tests.
however the pack should only affect those missing pics and icons?
or is there more to it??
(didn't want to download it yesterday due to the heavy swastikas usage as seen in the Titanium Edition screenshots - thread. will have to edit those out before I can use them..)
 
The UK seem no to build enough convoy transports. Although they start with 1000 transports and the 99 serial build. From summer winter 1940 the lack of transports lets the dissent rise rapidly since its 5 dissent per event fired.
 
The UK seem no to build enough convoy transports. Although they start with 1000 transports and the 99 serial build. From summer winter 1940 the lack of transports lets the dissent rise rapidly since its 5 dissent per event fired.


If I may interject here -- the 99 serial build was my suggestion last year to be put in to prevent the AI from doing a panic build when it experienced a temporary shortage of convoy transports due to a number of temporary factors. Is there now something else going on here that makes that one string of 99 not enough? This transport shortage issue in neither unique to WIF nor to UK. Will another string of 99 make things work OK or is there something less obvious going on here with this specific WIF mod edition?

Fernando -- you make the call -- would you like for me to take a look at UK right now. I really want to see the next new changes before I continue the US play. Although -- I will be tied up over all the Labour Day weekend -- 4 grandsons staying with us for the weekend.
 
Last edited:
UK AI has in dec 1940 in its build screen the original 99 string but no other convoy build.

Me as UK have build 3 strings (if i build 99 aswell is that ok?) and seem to be slightly gaining convoys. I only started building after war start.

Does the UK AI "know" what is the minimum transports for the event to fire?
 
re ;)

quite a bit late but in return with more detailed stuff (hope I dont kill you with it :D
my second report on a beta02 (from sun 30.08) checksum = LAEX game:
(played until may 42 on n/n)

general questions regarding WiF:
- should UK release some puppets like egypt and india before ww2 or after? Just asking if I can outsorce some territorial responsibility by that.
Do both countries build decent amounts of INF like in other mods?


intelligence:
- major powers should start with a higher int. lvl than minor ones


research:
- SouthAfrica has improved construction tech blueprint and trades it for free
-> UK should have blueprint right from start
- land doctrine sub-tech descriptions missing for "movement warfare" till "minor invasion"


production:
- money = unknown string wanted @tooltip
- serious money shortage = WAD? all other major powers are fine
- dissent info from cg production still fubar
- reinforcements: mp at start a bit low / or mp rate of 0.23 too low?
- mp rate: pre-war = 0.23 / after mobilization = 0.43 / full sliders + 35% minister bonus = 0.60 (when available @40)


units:
- egyptian navy @ new fundland based


trade:
- rare mining out of proportion:
CAN + AUS over 100 rares per day @ dec 1940
CAN still strong over 100 rares p.d. @ dec 1941, AUS even reaching
near 200 rares per day
- money:
UK has money problems through the entire game, doesnt even produce enough money daily to keep all 5 research slots open. some trades with allies and US (+10money for over 20 supplies) can lessen the burden and even allow for some limited spy games, however only some here and there.

diplomacy:
- MC -> high sum of money required? = MilitaryControl impossible... WAD?


WAR:

- 37: JPN stacking inf. units in the marshal chain instead of focusing on chinese mainland -> inf. units as garrisons for island chain
- JPN stacking inf. units in Xilinhot -> no border with chinese provinces! reserves?! -> will move to the front one war starts
- JPN stacking inf. units in Chongyin -> border with SOV
- JPN will shuffle inf. units from marshal back to mainland China and will transport GAR there instead once the war breaks out


JPN/Nat.China WAR:
- Nat.China annexed all other chinese warlords asap once war broke out
- JPN offensive halted at yellow river, henan -> inf. units wasted on islands/SOV border could provide more power for this drive
- JPN stacking inf. units in Fukuoka -> preparing for amphib. landings
- JPN attacks via amphib. landings -> with marines first


WAR in Europe:
- GER has no problem steamrolling POL, my BEF was deployed in egypt and FRA folded therefore pretty fast too.
- once Vichy event fired battle of britain commenced.
- Nat.Spain wins SCW and joins axis june 40 -> GER stationed troops (4 divs = 3x HQ + 1x ARM Oo) in Algesiras vis-a-vis Gibraltar, however doesnt attack the light garrison forces there.
possible to mod ai to attack gibraltar over land once Nat.Spain joins axis?
- GER has some massive sealion attempts (from Vichy until barb 41 starts) however any way to forbid ai to try amph. assaults with tank divisions? -> massive neg. modifier for tanks trying to assault a beach
- AUS invades and holds Balearic Islands (Mediterranean Sea) + Canary Isles (Atlantik coast of africa) @41
- CAN helps to defend Malta with 2x MOT
- after US and others joins allies minor nations deploy major air assets at (12x INT) Mallorca (Balearic Islands)
- US use british homeland as a land carrier as they have been doing historical


GER/SOV WAR Barb:
- fighting commenced may 41
- FIN joins axis june 41
- GER continues battle over britain (airwar) instead of switching TACs to ground support for the east front
- once winter event fires sept 41 offensive fights stop short of Leningrad, Sevastopol and Moscow
- GER removes all GAR from Norway, shouldnt happen
- GER commences second major offensive early may 42 (once frozen + muddy ground season is over)

(pictures available of the east front from build-up may 41 till may 42 if you're interested)


Pearl Harbour PAC WAR:
- furios JPN ai -> MAN gets almost all chinese provinces from JPN -> WAD?
- JPN joins axis = no against SOV due to peace treaty (valid till june 43)
- US and its puppets joins allies asap
- JPN annex phillipines @feb 42
- JPN conquers whole Indonesia (except Singapur) piece by piece since feb 42
- CAN helps defend HongKong with 1x INF @feb 42
- JPN invades wake island @feb42 -> US reconquers it @mar 42
- US invades Central Carolines islands @mar 42 -> then stalemate
- JPN has event "we have awakend a giant" + "the enemy recovers" @mar 42
- JPN occupies DiegoGarcia @mar 42
- UK defence in Singapur gets help from exp.forces (1x INF each) from CAN, Peru, Nicaragua and Guatemala, US helps with 2x MOT too
- JPN invades Ceylon @mar 42
- JPN invades and holds Port Moseby @may 42

(several pictures available of the pac theater from pearl dec 41 till may 42 if you're interested)


Some impressions and statistical data:

- battles:
- air vs sea battles -> no asw around GB possible, high buildtime and same high repair time of sea units vs massive lower build/repair numbers for air
-> sea units ain't worth it, RN is forced to avoid the coast of GB at all -> even with massive neg. weather mod. (rain) plain TACs crush any flotilla
-> forget attacking amphib. landings from GER with RN or asw near any coast, it just isnt viable

- sea vs sea battles -> stacking penalty a bit high?! naval command limit is higher than vanilla, stacking penalty should reflect this
-> example: with 14 ship SAG (7 captial ships and 7 screens) I get -60 stacking modifier (fleet command = grand admiral) which seems way off
(compare it to vanilla value (penalty = (ship number - 2) x (-1%)) according to paradoxian.org's naval primer)

- land vs land battles -> no over-command penalty for ai -> WAD?!

- exp gains for naval and air commanders seems off -> xp trickles in too slow,
some examples:
-> one year with almost constanst air intercepts and my air commander (lvl.3 Dowding) didn't even gain 10xp
-> grand admiral vain (lvl. 4 naval commander) had over 10 naval battles with my 2. CTF Homefleet against the bulk of the Kriegsmarine (4CV 2CA 6Screens vs Hochseflotte of BBs and CAs) -> sank 2BBs 1Screens and 12TRP
-> only 24xp
-> same with 1. CTF in the Med Sea, grand admiral cunningham (lvl.5) intercepted numerous italien fleets, sunk 1CA, 2Screens and 15TRP
-> only 16xp
-> SAG in the Med sea with grand admiral sommerville (lvl.5) sunk 3BB, 4CA, 1Screen and 1TRP
-> only 16xp for him


Manpower numbers for majors:
Code:
GER manpower:
- @sep 39 = 1072 (case white)
- @jun 40 = 1182 (after vichy event fires)
- @jan 41 = 1175
- @jun 41 = 1088 (barb war start)
- @sep 41 = 1174 (winter stops attacks)
- @jan 42 = 1119
- @may 42 = 966

SOV manpower:
- @sep 39 = 2394 (case white)
- @jun 40 = 2342 (after vichy event fires)
- @jan 41 = 2538
- @jun 41 = 2697 (barb war start)
- @sep 41 = 4494 (winter stops attacks)
- @jan 42 = 4148
- @may 42 = 3973

UK manpower:
- @sep 39 = 274 (case white)
- @jun 40 = 41 (after vichy event fires)
- @jan 41 = 185
- @jun 41 = 112 (barb war start)
- @sep 41 = 97 (winter stops attacks)
- @jan 42 = 149
- @may 42 = 158

JPN manpower:
- @sep 39 = 432 (case white)
- @jun 40 = 311	(after vichy event fires)
- @jan 41 = 315 
- @jun 41 = 1301 (conquers almost entire china mainland)
- @sep 41 = 1338 (normal MP rate before furios ai event)
- @jan 42 = 9594 (furios ai event)
- @may 42 = 8463 (furios ai event)

ITA manpower:
- @sep 39 = 415	(case white)
- @jun 40 = 416 (after vichy event fires)
- @jan 41 = 454
- @jun 41 = 464
- @sep 41 = 505
- @jan 42 = 564
- @may 42 = 628

FRA manpower:
- @sep 39 = 419 (case white)
- @jun 40 = 1 (after vichy event fires)


US manpower:
- @sep 39 = 487	(case white)
- @jun 40 = 873 (after vichy event fires)
- @jan 41 = 849
- @jun 41 = 768
- @sep 41 = 1122
- @jan 42 = 1708
- @may 42 = 1593


Overview unit build-up:

(zoom in to see numbers in detail)


land sea air


some conclusions:

- land: GER starts WW2 with fewer INF divs than POL, Nat.China has twice the number of INF than JPN however still lose most battles
FRA has no chance to keep up with GER land unit wise, UK cant use BEF in france + defence up egypt against ITA at the same time (low MP for UK)
GER doubles its INF divs till barb (may 41) and has around 2/3 of SOV forces ready for war
GER builds 4 PARAs however wont use them (against UK homeland or gibraltar or malta or any other isle in the med sea)
ITA can match UK INF production easily (aug 41) even when one adds exp. forces to UK
UK can hold the line in egypt for the price of not using BEF in france, not enough INF possible to guard all important islands in the atlantik + indian ocean
UK vs JPN is hopeless for UK in Burma/India
SOV can keep the INF lead up (SOV 3:2 GER) and holds parity in other land forces (sep 41)
JPN massively expands its land forces with furios ai event, has even more than GER (may 42)
MAN gains considerable INF divs from same event
US starts slow but steady build-up of its land forces with focus on MOT -> need more MAR divs (only 2 @may 42)


- sea: US builds around 100 TRP (37-42)
GER some 40 TRP too for sealion however lacks the necessary protection for it
JPN expands its navy massive, focus on carriers (8x CAGs) and a few other ships of the line
ITA has almost no new builds and therefore has no chance against RN in the med sea
GER second focus are subs who cause havoc in the atlantik and around the british isle (no asw possible -> due to massive GER TAC stacks (air vs sea imbalance))
UK RN is useless without aircover and asw aint viable because simply there cant be enough aircraft produced to cover all fleets
UK can keep ITA at bay in the med
US matches JPN carrier wise by may 42


- air: GER focus on TACs first and simultaneously builds some INT and FTR (aug 39)
GER neglegts CAS completely which is ahistorical -> WAD?
GER builds 3x TRP planes but wont use them to drop paras on vital islands
GER has massive FTR forces and almost no CAS (may 42)
SOV neglegts air units completely besides some intital INT + TAC builds (may 41)
SOV should focus on air supperiority against those GER TACs -> FRT and no INT due to huge areas in russia
FRA builds some INT for air interdiction (aug 40)
ITA has some NAV in its building queue and has its focus on INT (may 42)
JPN builds little add. airpower before pearl harbour 41


UK specific stuff

UK MP:
- 42: even with 203% MP growth UK only has around 0.63 MP/day gains, which are really quite low (with INF/MOT @15MP, ARM @11MP)
-> cant build enought forces to engage in Africa (only able to hold the line) and build-up suitable defences against JPN in Burma/India
-> even ITA has higher MP income (around 1.1 MP/day) or JPN (1.1 MP/day too) -> FRA after vichy event has 1.01 MP/day!
-> war of attrition against ITA in africa not viable, educated guess that UK under ai control wont have slightest chance

UK money production:
fucked up, even 44 IC to CG (reducing dissent) gains a significant neg. income @42-> FRA with only 19IC has over +30money income per day on the other side
-> solution: increase off-map production of money for UK?!

UK convoy stats:
- UK starts with 1000 convoy transporter in 36 and my game ends with 1093 convoy trp available or deployed in 42
-> there were 660 convoy trp build until then and a total of 567 convoys (63 @39/ 123 @40/ 381 @41) destroyed by subs

;)
 
Alright thank you very much.
You reported several things that may not be altered in Titanium since some need a complete rework of the mod (like the whole MP/resources/units balance). However, this will be very usefull to me for further HOI related works, so thank you again.
I have corrected some minor issues you reported though.
 
i wouldnt play with UK.because it too easy i mean u will get exp forces from some nations and thats huge.also i dont need build infantry just couple of tank divisions will be ok for rest of the game.