https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech...-going-live-there-make-like-earth/1905447002/
So... who wants to prove him wrong?
So... who wants to prove him wrong?
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
We don't go and live in Antarctica because it's not far enough away from all the other people on Earth!
My god there some something that comes out of that idiots mouth I agree with... SORT OF....
I agree that terraforming is a pipe dream that will likely not happen. Then again why should it? I mean well designed habitats would allow people to live and work with no issues other than your in a habitat. More modern materials and other advancements will make space suits less of a hassle and will allow people to go outside if they wish. So what if they have to wear a space suit, if you go outside in the winter you need a coat.
The idea of living in a habitat is what seems to him to be a massive turn off. yet a well designed habitat would not be that much different than living in a small city. There are people that live in a city their entires lives, happily, and never leave.
So I agree that the idea of terraforming mars is science fiction, however the idea that no one would want to do it is nuts.
I agree that terraforming is a pipe dream that will likely not happen. Then again why should it? I mean well designed habitats would allow people to live and work with no issues other than your in a habitat. More modern materials and other advancements will make space suits less of a hassle and will allow people to go outside if they wish. So what if they have to wear a space suit, if you go outside in the winter you need a coat.
The idea of living in a habitat is what seems to him to be a massive turn off. yet a well designed habitat would not be that much different than living in a small city. There are people that live in a city their entires lives, happily, and never leave.
So I agree that the idea of terraforming mars is science fiction, however the idea that no one would want to do it is nuts.
With current tech, it's basically a non-starter.
Lack of sci-fi radiation shielding means your entire habitat is underground. People generally don't like living underground; it's perhaps tolerable, but people like sunlight.
Power generation is a significant issue. The one advantage I can think of is much less atmospheric oxygen and water to degrade equipment, particularly solar panels... though that comes with much less radiation shielding. Solar power is ~1/3 of Earth, wind power a smaller fraction (see Scott Manley for more info: www.youtube.com/watch?0xtW7g4R_vs). You can forget fossil fuels (no oxygen!), and nuclear reactors would mean either shipping the fuel from Earth or a complicated mining/refining stream. Granted, shipping fuel from Earth would actually be pretty easy if it weren't for anti-nuclear protestors who fail to realize that a fresh fuel rod is quite safe... it's only once you start to use it that it accumulates nasty intermediate-half-life fission products that are nasty to deal with.
You're dependent on technology imported from Earth. Surviving Mars is not exactly realistic in terms of self-sufficiency; you need massive globalized infrastructure to build much of the equipment that would be necessary for life on Mars. I'm not even very familiar with electronics production, and even then I can list this set of equipment needed to manufacture electronics:
A clean room (air filters, low-dust garments)
Ultra-pure silicon
Lasers
Very finely machined masks
Doping compounds
Each of these have their own complicated manufacturing streams. For Mars to be truly self-sufficient, you'd need a very substantial population, likely approaching at least a million people. Don't forget as well that solar panels are electronics themselves, and can't simply be stamped out from metal!
Much less shielding from meteors, which doubles down on buried colonies.
Buried colonies would impede mobility for wee things like "finding the basic resources we need to manufacture what we can make on-site".
I would absolutely hate living permanently on Mars. I could maybe see
Lack of sci-fi radiation shielding means your entire habitat is underground. People generally don't like living underground; it's perhaps tolerable, but people like sunlight.
Power generation is a significant issue. The one advantage I can think of is much less atmospheric oxygen and water to degrade equipment, particularly solar panels... though that comes with much less radiation shielding. Solar power is ~1/3 of Earth, wind power a smaller fraction (see Scott Manley for more info: www.youtube.com/watch?0xtW7g4R_vs). You can forget fossil fuels (no oxygen!), and nuclear reactors would mean either shipping the fuel from Earth or a complicated mining/refining stream. Granted, shipping fuel from Earth would actually be pretty easy if it weren't for anti-nuclear protestors who fail to realize that a fresh fuel rod is quite safe... it's only once you start to use it that it accumulates nasty intermediate-half-life fission products that are nasty to deal with.
You're dependent on technology imported from Earth. Surviving Mars is not exactly realistic in terms of self-sufficiency; you need massive globalized infrastructure to build much of the equipment that would be necessary for life on Mars. I'm not even very familiar with electronics production, and even then I can list this set of equipment needed to manufacture electronics:
A clean room (air filters, low-dust garments)
Ultra-pure silicon
Lasers
Very finely machined masks
Doping compounds
Each of these have their own complicated manufacturing streams. For Mars to be truly self-sufficient, you'd need a very substantial population, likely approaching at least a million people. Don't forget as well that solar panels are electronics themselves, and can't simply be stamped out from metal!
Much less shielding from meteors, which doubles down on buried colonies.
Buried colonies would impede mobility for wee things like "finding the basic resources we need to manufacture what we can make on-site".
I would absolutely hate living permanently on Mars. I could maybe see
He may be right in the short term. But he's absolutely wrong in the long term.
Sure, with today's tech, we're not going to live on Mars in any significant way, let alone terraform it.
But at some point in the future - how far I couldn't speculate - I'm absolutely sure we will create a Mars colony. (A moon base might be a better start.) Mars can be a stepping stone out into our galaxy, as could Pluto, or any other rocky planet (or whatever) that's closer to the edge of our own solar system.
Sure, with today's tech, we're not going to live on Mars in any significant way, let alone terraform it.
But at some point in the future - how far I couldn't speculate - I'm absolutely sure we will create a Mars colony. (A moon base might be a better start.) Mars can be a stepping stone out into our galaxy, as could Pluto, or any other rocky planet (or whatever) that's closer to the edge of our own solar system.
My primary issue with statements like this is "Why?"
Why would we bother building on a distant, low-gravity rock with no radiation shielding, no oxygen, no surface water, soil that would have to be remediated before use, etc? As a springboard to even more distant rocks with even more problems? Except for scientific reasons (for which a small, McMurdo-like base would work just as well), and possibly for surface-exposed mineral deposits (for which frankly a robotic operation would be cheaper*), there's no real reason to go there. Literally everything would be more difficult and more expensive because of the many, many issues with Mars.
*Also, the really valuable stuff like rare earth metals can be more conveniently obtained from non-differentiated asteroids, rather than planets where most of the heavy elements have sunk to the core.
Everything except red dust would be more expensive, and your living conditions would be... stuck in a cramped underground habitat with the fine tourist destinations of Red Sand, More Red Sand, and Even More Red Sand. Such a wonderful place to pack up and go to.
EDIT: I love the game, and I love space exploration, but there is a lot of silliness about colonization and manned missions to Mars, where the romanticization of the concept has masked the many, many issues about sending people to places where we literally need to ship Earth along with them so they don't die.
Better question is, why not? also, it's far more likely that most of the planets we'll get to will look more like Mars than Earth (much less actually beyond just the colors being the same and is actually habitable), and we gotta get the experience from somewhere. why not somewhere a bit closer to home? there's also a bit more to a planet than just it's mineral value, that is to say farming space. if it was just minerals, sure we'd only need asteroids outside of the few elements that don't want to be found outside of them (whatever those are), but the main prize will farmland. bonus if it's already decently habitable and we can just move right in and do other stuff
Gravity on planet is always going down, they always lose gravity, not gaining some. So it's imposible to have atmosphere again on Mars ^^ (and if you saw last week news, the KG on earth lost 50g, 1kg = 950g, we are also losing gravity).
So she will never turn to earth-like alone and i doubt strongly that it's possible to make one Any atmosphere creation attempt will go in space. And the same fate is coming here on earth
So she will never turn to earth-like alone and i doubt strongly that it's possible to make one
Any atmosphere creation attempt will go in space. And the same fate is coming here on earth Seeing as how this Martian "farmland" would have to be underground to ensure your crops don't get irradiated to death, I'm going to have to go with "literally easier to dig a hole in the ground and make those underground farms on Earth". For that matter, easier just to build a vertical farm, as has been done in some hydroponics facilities already.
At least then you don't need to deal with eliminating perchlorates from the soil, generating usable atmosphere, the great difficulty of obtaining water on Mars, the reduced solar output of Mars, an annual cycle different from Earth's, etc.
There is an endless litany of reasons "why not", a lot of which boil down to "without the radiation shielding, oxygenated atmosphere, plentiful water, and active biosphere provided by Earth, it's really hard to live there".
and the counter is that at some point it won't be enough. which, given some attitudes around these days seems to be sooner rather than later.
What won't be enough? It's not clear what you're referring to.
If it's about Earth being our only planet, well, it'll still be the only planet for 99.99% of the human species barring incredible leaps in technology, and any Mars colony would be so dependent on regular supply shipments from Earth that it'd die too if Earth's population collapses.
I'm guessing that the primary reason for families to go to Mars is because a martian scientific base would be so isolated that, the researchers wouldn't be coming back for several years, if not decades. So, any family on Earth would be too far away to have meaningful relationships with, and the people you live with would be a more natural direction for any romantic intrest... And that has a fair chance to produce new martians...
Without at best .75 LS travel, there is nothing beyond Mars that would be even reachable by the human race without a "Generation" ship. That makes it a one way trip for those on board, no matter where it ends up...
Mars is just a means by which our Science can try and carry itself forward, even if the chances of actually living on Mars, or transforming it for habitability, is likely a pipe dream, but dream is what we humans do... why stop now?
Mars is just a means by which our Science can try and carry itself forward, even if the chances of actually living on Mars, or transforming it for habitability, is likely a pipe dream, but dream is what we humans do... why stop now?