Counties Removed!

[Taylor138]

Has anyone else noticed from the recent dev update video that there’s counties missing in southern Italy? Amalfi and trapani have been removed. At first I thought they had been replaced with more accurate names but no southern Italy is now 2 counties less just from seeing the map for a moment.

I know to some this may be unimportant but from someone such as myself who plays in Italy quite a bit I had always thought Italy wasn’t given enough importance to what it was during the medieval era as well as I had also always believed Italy needed to have more counties not less especially in southern Italy it always felt like I was a minor king rather than the strong Sicilian kingdom it was under the normans. This has been the one and only disappointment I’ve seen so far with CK3, I’ve always been a supporter of more counties rather than taking away. I hope we don’t see the same thing across the map.

 

[Pied-Noir]

That I noticed:

Perche
Ponthieu
Montbéliard (possibly - hard to tell)
Poher
Trégor
Mortain

 

[Taylor138]

I didn’t even notice those ones, that’s a shame IMO. I’m not sure why there taking counties away, I’d rather have more counties across the map rather than sub holdings on the map, considering we’ll give most of them away if we have any, I’m really confused over this.

 

[Denkt]

The baronies are on the map now, if that means more or less counties I don't know.

 

[Taylor138]

I just hope they haven’t decided since they’ve added baronies on the map that now that somehow counts as more counties? Because almost all of us players give those holding out to anyone because we want counties not baronies as our own holdings.

 

[Jia Xu]

Baronies are on the map, meaning they've been upgraded to a kind of province in their own right. Some counties may have been downgraded to baronies to reflect the new change. Counties are now essentially regions and not just meant to represent an individual city.

 

[Pied-Noir]

I mentioned a few here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...m-january-update-video.1318433/#post-26212915

Some of the new counties puzzle me: for example, why choose Bouillon over Chiny? Why go back to only six counties in Brittany? Why cut Perche? Why have huge Boulogne and Guines provinces and yet no Ponthieu or Saint-Pol? Both were important comital families in the area and there's plenty of room for both.

Hopefully we see some revisions.

 

[Taylor138]

Yes I understand your concern it’s the same from what I can see with Duchy of Sicily, they’ve went from 6 counties down to 5 if Malta is still there I wasn’t able to see if it was, if not then it would be 4. I’m not sure why there downsizing counties in favor of baronies.

 

[Xain]

Yeah, I noticed it as well.

Grouping all western Sicily under the "county of Palermo" really takes a lot of un away of playing Sicily...

EDIT although I still hope that it is something linked to early development, or maybe the zoom level...

 

[Taylor138]

Yes my point exactly, I play a lot of my campings in Italy (Sicily specifically) and I’ve always thought it needed more depth not less that’s for sure. I always felt Sicily lacked in having enough counties for vassal interaction and it was just too easy to have most of the nation under your own demense because there isn’t that many counties to begin with. It makes Sicily feel like a backwater kingdom truthfully.

 

[Pied-Noir]

I really dislike how unclear it is what's a full county and what's just a barony.

 

[JSB217118]

Maybe they'll sell us additional counties as DLC. Yay

 

[Axis89]

I would also want to see more counties than vanilla CK2. And italy deserves better treatment, I agree.

Maybe each barony now has a manor, just like counties have baronies in CK2 xD

 

[Jack Hohenstaufen]

While I can comprehend the merging of Palermo and Trapani(even if I dislike it, as stated by others the Kingdom is too small, with a ruler having 14-15 desmene limit in ck2 you can own the entire kingdom and even couple of baronies in Palermo), I don't like at all the missing of Amalfi, as it was the seat of a Republic till 1131.
Perhaps they could add Pescara along Chieti and Aquila to have a 3 counties duchy.
Then adding Aversa, the very FIRST county obtained by the normans in South Italy back in the 1029, 44 years before the game start.
Napoli was an indipendent Duchy so it shouldn't be part of the Duchy of Capua, and perhaps the county of Teano could be a county inside the Duchy of Naples
Generally I dislike the 2 counties duchies like Benevento and Capua.
Capua could have an additional county in his duchy rappresented by the County of Aversa.
I know the problem is that these counties could be really small, and I don't know how much the dev can increase the size of the map, but I hope we have less 2 counties duchy and more love and flavour to the Duchy of Capua, Napoli and Sicily, that was too rich and important to have only 4 counties, 5 considering Malta

 

[Denkt]

Maybe each barony now has a manor, just like counties have baronies in CK2 xD

That is just taking stuff too far, Imperator: Rome already have taken it too far with 7000 territories in my opinion and the only way that would work is if the warfare system is redesigned.

More stuff is not always a good thing, actually it is as often a bad thing.

 

[Pied-Noir]

I agree with @Jack Hohenstaufen that the omission of Amalfi is a great shame, and that Aversa would be a nice addition. I'm also not a fan of such large personal demesne caps, and I hope CK III has something more like 2-3 as a general cap.

A couple of provinces I'd consider adding in Italy are Gaeta and Tusculum.

 

[Chlodio]

Yeah, I noticed it as well.

Grouping all western Sicily under the "county of Palermo" really takes a lot of un away of playing Sicily...

Especially since during this period, it was subdivided into three valli:

Each with a major city, those being Messina, Palermo, and Syracusa.

 

[Axis89]

That is just taking stuff too far, Imperator: Rome already have taken it too far with 7000 territories in my opinion and the only way that would work is if the warfare system is redesigned.

More stuff is not always a good thing, actually it is as often a bad thing.

I was joking, no wonder you and I completely misunderstand each other.

 

[Arko]

More counties isn't necessary better. A lot were just added with 936 bookmark, sometimes, sorry to say mindlessly and with no proper holder or coat of arms etc.
Quality over quantity please.

 

[eatme]

I agree with @Jack Hohenstaufen that the omission of Amalfi is a great shame, and that Aversa would be a nice addition. I'm also not a fan of such large personal demesne......

Its hard to tell from just screenies off the video, to say the density of regions is bad, or there are important omissions on settlements. I agree with view that it mostly likely looks that they have downgraded some settlements to barony level and reshuffled county seats a bit.