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Duchy turning into Principality?

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Galliun

Galliun

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Weird. Three of the dukes in Ireland / Mann and the Isles (Ulster, Munster and Connacht) suddenly became Princes of those areas. Even more strange is the fact that the OTHER dukes of Ireland / Mann and the Isles (Orkney, Gwynned, bla bla bla) are still dukes. What could have happened?

Edit - Also, kind of related, suddenly the income of all provinces in Ireland went way down. Dublin used to be 15ish and up, and now it's at 5, and it's Rich! It even has all the (possible) upgrades and whatnot. Also interesting to note is that it only happened in Ireland. My Irish vassals suffer from the same malady, while my Welsh ones do not. What gives?
 
Galliun said:
Weird. Three of the dukes in Ireland / Mann and the Isles (Ulster, Munster and Connacht) suddenly became Princes of those areas. Even more strange is the fact that the OTHER dukes of Ireland / Mann and the Isles (Orkney, Gwynned, bla bla bla) are still dukes. What could have happened?

Edit - Also, kind of related, suddenly the income of all provinces in Ireland went way down. Dublin used to be 15ish and up, and now it's at 5, and it's Rich! It even has all the (possible) upgrades and whatnot. Also interesting to note is that it only happened in Ireland. My Irish vassals suffer from the same malady, while my Welsh ones do not. What gives?
Click to expand...

Then those dukes must have become Orthodox, since Orthodox dukes are named Princes.
 
They haven't turned orthodox, I double checked every principality. What did happen is that I took the title of Duke of Ulster from the bastard Duke of Toscana, who had taken it from this rebellious jackass ages ago. Anyway, yeah, they're catholic princes.

Regarding the income, I don't know, even my own demesne suffers from bad income. It used to be in the high 60's, but now it's at 7, at best. All the taxes are at minimum, as they always have. All my sliders are as low a possible, except for Upkeep. And I do have a swanky steward, with 15ish. My king, however, doesn't have all that much Stewardship.
 
No and no. Dublin is Rich, and suffers no bad effect. Although there are now only two provinces in my demesne (Dublin and Mide), the income is still horridly low. Essex has an income of 44 or something, it's absurd.

Edit - Scratch the principality thing, I'm stupid and can't read, apparently. Yes, the princes ARE orthodox, and my double checking failed completely. Sigh.
 
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I'm going to throw out a wild theory here. You said you took a Duke title from an Italian Duke. Was this in a peace negotiation after a war? Did that Duke also have a claim on 'your' main King title? Did you force him to relinquish that claim? Is he by chance now the King of Ireland (or whatever your main King title was)?

A bug sometimes shows up where the loser with a claim on your main title, actually gets that title when forced to give it up. This could also lead to the game getting confused and now treating you as an AI player, which might cause weird things to happen. (Until you save/reload because your main title has changed). ?????
 
Woah, what the hell, the world has gone bonkers. Every single one of my vassals is becoming rebellious, and apparently my king is Orthodox and I didn't notice it before. These things are probably related. What the hell.

Edit - Oh well, now that I have pinpointed that indeed they are orthodox, how can I fix it? I want my rulers to be Catholic, as were they forefathers. Problem is, I don't see how I could do it without hacking (and I don't want to do that at all).
 
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Galliun said:
Woah, what the hell, the world has gone bonkers. Every single one of my vassals is becoming rebellious, and apparently my king is Orthodox and I didn't notice it before. These things are probably related. What the hell.

Edit - Oh well, now that I have pinpointed that indeed they are orthodox, how can I fix it? I want my rulers to be Catholic, as were they forefathers. Problem is, I don't see how I could do it without hacking (and I don't want to do that at all).
Click to expand...

Only ways I can think of right now that might work (with some luck):

1. Give your heirs ecclesiastical educations, and send them off as fosterlings to Catholic rulers. And then hope that he finishes his education while away at the foreign court. Then he will gain the same religion as the liege of that realm.

2. Loose your king title to another catholic ruler. You will then get events that will switch your religion back to Catholic (same as your new liege). Then you can work on getting your rightful title back as a converted ruler :)
 
3. Give your Heir ecclesiastical education, then give him a province that is in a Catholic ruler's King title area (which of course you might have to acquire first), DOW him and in the Peace Process, give up your claim to his title and set him free (to stop him from spamming you with repledging offers for the next few years). Hopefully, he'll pledge to that Catholic ruler. Once he comes of age he'll turn Catholic and still be your Heir.

Question: No idea what religion he would get once he finishes his education and he hasn't pledged to a Catholic ruler yet. Does an 'independent' ruler who has a Orthodox father but owns a Catholic province get the religion of the province or of his father?

Edit: Well, I thought I'd go ahead and test that question and find out. In my current game, found a Duke vassal of mine who hadn't finished his ecclesiastical education yet (he is 17 years old - in case that makes a difference). He had 2 provinces in his demesne, one Catholic and one Orthodox. Went in and modded the game save to make him independent (at which point I noticed his religion is set to Catholic even tho he hasn't finished his education yet). Went into the game as him and gave away his Catholic province, waited one day so his Capital moved to his Orthodox province. Saved and checked the game save. (He still hadn't finished his education). Game save still shows him as a Catholic ruler, which means he'll still turn Catholic?

He's got one underage fosterling living there with ecclesiastical who is also showing as a Catholic in the save game file, so age doesn't seem to matter. So I'm guessing that the religion of your parents at the time of your birth trumps everything except the ruler's at the time of the finishing of their ecclesiastical education.

I let the game run playing as that Duke, and when he finally finished his Education (at age 19) he was still set to Catholic, even tho his Capital was Orthodox and he was Independent.
 
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TempestDK said:
1. Give your heirs ecclesiastical educations, and send them off as fosterlings to Catholic rulers. And then hope that he finishes his education while away at the foreign court. Then he will gain the same religion as the liege of that realm.
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With DVIP I think ecclesiastical will always finish before a fosterling goes home, so it's actually possible to change religion at will.


GJScarritt said:
Question: No idea what religion he would get once he finishes his education and he hasn't pledged to a Catholic ruler yet. Does an 'independent' ruler who has a Orthodox father but owns a Catholic province get the religion of the province or of his father?
...
He's got one underage fosterling living there with ecclesiastical who is also showing as a Catholic in the save game file, so age doesn't seem to matter. So I'm guessing that the religion of your parents at the time of your birth trumps everything except the ruler's at the time of the finishing of their ecclesiastical education.
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The religion of a child is always their father's, it's only when they finish the education that it sets to the highest lord in the realm. I don't think provinces matter at all. So to get option #3 to work, he does indeed have to pledge to a catholic ruler before finishing his education.


The interesting thing is, how did you manage to turn Orthodox without noticing it? :rofl: Sending your heir as a fosterling to a Catholic vassal of an Orthodox king?

Later in the game, once the crusades have the holy land to change hands a few times, and you start seeing former crusader lands vassalised to the Seljuks or whatever, you might accidentally end up changing religion to Muslim if you're not careful :D
 
Snaake said:
With DVIP I think ecclesiastical will always finish before a fosterling goes home, so it's actually possible to change religion at will.
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I am pretty sure this is not correct ... and that it is the other way around ... that he will come home before he finishes his education.
 
From the 13.12.2009 changelogs:

*) Addon: lowered age of education completion to 15. This corresponds to randomly spawned courtiers, and allows for fosterlings to switch religion if they are set to ecclesiastical education (catholic/orthodox switch on demand!)
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So it's actually in the DVIP addons pack it seems. I've made the mistake of not differentiating between DVIP and DVIP+addons before, since I use the latter and haven't played with just the base DVIP. The text refers to catholic/orthodox switches, but I'm not sure what would happen if you sent an ecclesiastical fosterling to a Christian count vassal of a Muslim kingdom.
 
Snaake said:
From the 13.12.2009 changelogs:



So it's actually in the DVIP addons pack it seems. I've made the mistake of not differentiating between DVIP and DVIP+addons before, since I use the latter and haven't played with just the base DVIP. The text refers to catholic/orthodox switches, but I'm not sure what would happen if you sent an ecclesiastical fosterling to a Christian count vassal of a Muslim kingdom.
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ahh ok ... so we are both right :D ... sort of. I think I have the addons too .. but I haven't updated my DVIP for ages, so I probably have an older version.
 
Snaake said:
Later in the game, once the crusades have the holy land to change hands a few times, and you start seeing former crusader lands vassalised to the Seljuks or whatever, you might accidentally end up changing religion to Muslim if you're not careful :D
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I was wondering about that.

I have a de Hauteville game going where my king's heir inherited some Russian land while underage and now his Orthodox.

What's going to happen when his inherits the Kingdoms of Sicily and Africa from dear old Catholic dad?

What would happen if you got a Muslim ruler?
 
Oooh... That's what happened to my current king too. When he was just a heir, he SOMEHOW ended up as Count of Minsk (I have absolutely no idea how), and ended up inheriting after a long time. That's what did it.
 
Oslac said:
I was wondering about that.

I have a de Hauteville game going where my king's heir inherited some Russian land while underage and now his Orthodox.

What's going to happen when his inherits the Kingdoms of Sicily and Africa from dear old Catholic dad?

What would happen if you got a Muslim ruler?
Click to expand...

Well if your next heir is Orthodox, your realm will most likely turn Orthodox eventually.

But if you have DVIP Addons, you can send out ecclesiastical heirs to catholic courts so they'll turn Catholic again.

If your heir is muslim, I think you can continue play until you save and reload. Since it will then be a muslim realm, you can no longer select it from playable nations, unless you edit the save game file (every time you want to load).
 
I'm using DV with beta patch so I guess we will be going Orthodox.

TempestDK said:
If your heir is muslim, I think you can continue play until you save and reload. Since it will then be a muslim realm, you can no longer select it from playable nations, unless you edit the save game file (every time you want to load).
Click to expand...

How do you edit the save game to do that?
 
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