Der große Türke
Mustafa Kemal's interview
Berliner Tageblatt: Mister President, it is a heartfelt honour to meet you, and we wish to thank you for your time, on behalf of the lectorate of the Berliner Tageblatt. Let us begin and ask a simple question: how would you sum up your impressions of the new Germany?
Mustafa Kemal: Incredible, to use one word. I have visited Berlin before, in 1917, as part of a military mission with the then-crown prince, Vahid ed-Din. Needless to say, it wasn't a leisurely visit, which may impair my judgement. But otherwise I have the feeling that Germany has undergone an impressive cultural rebirth. Instead of seeing the spirit of the junkers and Old Prussia, so to say, have vanished and no longer cast their shadow over Germany. There is now a German Republic where individual liberty, in both thought and action, flourish. This is most certainly a good thing for everyone, and something Turkey as a nation can aspire to.
Cultural rebirth is an expression one would more easily use to describe Turkey. How wide is your influence, and how sweeping were the changes?
M.K.: My influence as a person? That is of course very difficult for me to say about myself. But from what I have seen is that in five short years, Turkey has made incredible strides. I think the clearest example of this was a few months ago, when the Turkish language officially adopted the Latin alphabet.
Many here see you as some sort of miraculous modernizer. Do you believe such a revolution in cultural and political practices would have been possible without you? Or do you believe Turkish society had reached a point where such changes were unavoidable?
M.K.:The Great war has been an incredible event, and at the Paris Peace Conference Turkey was to be divided amongst the victors like a cake at a banquet. However, the Ottoman Sultanate and its institutions were for all intents and purposes untouched in the rump Turkey that barely straddled Anatolia. I think that my main mark in history will be as a general, as the leader of the Turkish national movement that created the Turkish state. However, my final impact will remain for the generations to decide, both in action and historical perspective. Maybe the Turkish Republic will grow into an enlightened nation, like those of Europe. Maybe it will perpetually be a tinpot dictatorship. Only time can tell. And the same rings true for cultural practices. When one goes beyond Istanbul and Smyrna, the Turkish peasants are still largely medieval in practice, in some places even in dress. The Turkish peasantry still remains to be modernised, as superstition, religious fervour, and backwards customs need to be eradicated and replaced with education and progressive thought. But again, this is something that will unfold over the coming decades.
You brought up the subject of democracy, and lauded the Reich for its democratic changes over the past decade. However, opposition to your policies has been silenced in Turkey. How would you justify this wide difference between the ideas you defend and the situation in your homeland?
M.K.: The way I see it, the current dictatorship is a necessary evil. At the moment a strong hand is needed for the changes that we are trying to push through and spread throughout the country. I firmly believe in democracy, and my government is one for the people, but not by the people. But I wish for this to change, and I have for a few years been discussion the idea of allowing an opposition-party to exist on a legal basis. And in the coming years we shall authorise the formation of one. For now, we will control democracy -if that makes any sense- so that it can't be hijacked by the forces of reaction. Turkey and Germany are very different countries, but in neither I believe the government can function well if it not in touch with its people.
The population exchange between Turkey and Greece was deemed a humanitarian catastrophe by many observers when it took place; looking back upon it do you believe it was a necessity to ensure the creation of a nation-state and continued peace, or was a bad decision born out of the necessities of the war?
M.K.: I simply view the population exchange as a sound idea to strengthen both Greece and Turkey, but the execution of it was poor. If I knew the execution would be poor when deciding on it, I think I still would have done it. The large Greek population in the city of Izmir, for instance, would be a cause of constant concern put up by potential enemies and as such it could easily become an internal threat.
Our trickier questions are now over, we'll change the subject and ask something more pleasant: Turkey has made a stunning economic comeback, how would you describe it and for how long can such growth be sustained?
M.K.:I'd describe it as a miracle, only made possible by the hardworking and eager-to-learn attitude of the Turk. After the war, our entire country was ruined and the Greeks and Armenians, who formedmost of the Ottoman State's middle classes, were out of our territory. Against all expectations a new middle class appeared in one, two years' time. And how long can such growth be sustained? Well, I am no economist, but I think that as long as the wider world economy does well, as it has done in recent years, there's no reason why Turkey's economy should falter.
Lastly, what is your vision of the future, what do you think the Turkey will look like in a decade? And where will you be?
M.K.:In a decade, I hope to see Turkey at a level of development, at least materially, as that of an Eastern European country. Great strides will have to be made, but I believe that this is possible bearing the last five years in mind. But regardless of development level, I hope that I will have created a Turkish republic that can develop itself further. And where I shall be in 1938? I do not know. Maybe I will still be president, maybe I will have retired. I will lead my people by the hand along the road until their feet are sure and they know the way. Then they may choose for themselves and rule themselves. Then my work will be done.
Mr President I thank you for your honest answers and for your time and wish you and your country luck for the future.
M.K.: Thank you for having me, and I wish you and your country luck too.