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Dsingis

Lt. General
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May 8, 2014
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We absolutely NEED free access to the console! It can't be that we have to play in constant cheat mode, by adding the "-debug_mode" launch parameter with all the purple debug elements constantly everywhere.

It can't be, that we need a mod to do what you should have done, to do what we can already to in every other of your games!There is absolutely no excuse for you to restrict access to the console at all. If the reason why you did this was because of the Imperator issue, where people could use exploits to use cheats in ironman mode, then who cares? Who cares if people want to ruin their own fun and cheating achievements? They gain absolutely nothing from it. I can already do that by downloading a cheat engine and cheat in ironman mode in every PDX game.
That is absolutely no valid reason to restrict the console acces for everyone!

But if you really really want to restrict this behind a launch parameter, then my compromise suggestion is the following:
Make a launch parameter, that just enables the console. No more, no less. So we don't have to constantly see all the debug elements. Just make this launch parameter enable the console, nothing else.
You can call it "-console_access" or something, and it just enables the console. We can then still use any command, like debug_mode if we want to see all the debug elements, and we can use that same command to hide stuff again.

It's that simple.

#FreeTheConsole
 
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Yeesh, way to take a good suggestion and murder it with hyperbole.

Being able to access the console outside of -debug_mode would be cool though. In the occasional chill non-ironman game, it's nice to be able to nudge things every now and again to keep them interesting, or to recover from a silly mistake. Not including a console isn't going to stop people from doing this, it's just going to make it less convenient.
 
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Yeesh, way to take a good suggestion and murder it with hyperbole.

Being able to access the console outside of -debug_mode would be cool though. In the occasional chill non-ironman game, it's nice to be able to nudge things every now and again to keep them interesting, or to recover from a silly mistake. Not including a console isn't going to stop people from doing this, it's just going to make it less convenient.

Just for clarification, a hyperbole is like an exaggeration, right? In that case I don't see how I exaggerate anything. All games have free console acces, and being forced to play with pink debug text the entire time is not acceptable. Especially since none of the other games have this. Only exception is Imperator, and even that game had a free console at launch.
Free console access is something that should have been in the game from the start considering all other games have it.

If you mean the point about being able to cheat in ironman mode regardless, that is not an exaggeration as well. I can literally download a cheat engine table and cheat in any pdx game in ironman.

If you refer to my suggestion, that is not an exaggeration either. If they intend to restrict console acces behind a launch parameter, a good compromise would be to not force debug_mode to be on the entire time, but instead to make the launch parameter enable console access.

In conclusion, I really don't see where I was exaggerating in your opinion.
 
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Just for clarification, a hyperbole is like an exaggeration, right? In that case I don't see how I exaggerate anything. All games have free console acces, and being forced to play with pink debug text the entire time is not acceptable. Especially since none of the other games have this. Only exception is Imperator, and even that game had a free console at launch.
Free console access is something that should have been in the game from the start considering all other games have it.

If you mean the point about being able to cheat in ironman mode regardless, that is not an exaggeration as well. I can literally download a cheat engine table and cheat in any pdx game in ironman.

If you refer to my suggestion, that is not an exaggeration either. If they intend to restrict console acces behind a launch parameter, a good compromise would be to not force debug_mode to be on the entire time, but instead to make the launch parameter enable console access.

In conclusion, I really don't see where I was exaggerating in your opinion.

A hyperbole is an overstatement, particularly one used for rhetorical effect.

Essentially, what I'm saying is that your language is over the top, you sound somewhat aggressive and entitled, and you might find that more people would agree with you if you tried to express yourself more diplomatically (i.e. with fewer demands, words in all caps, and exclamation points). For an example of how this works, compare the amount of "Agrees" you're getting with the amount of "Agrees" on this post or this post, which are essentially arguing the same point as you.

Just remember that game devs are human beings, just like you. If I came up to you, as a perfect stranger, and started listing the things I "NEED" you to do, and telling you that there's "absolutely no excuse" you've not done them yet, how would you react? How would you feel? Would you be very inclined to listen to my suggestions?
 
A hyperbole is an overstatement, particularly one used for rhetorical effect.

Essentially, what I'm saying is that your language is over the top, you sound somewhat aggressive and entitled, and you might find that more people would agree with you if you tried to express yourself more diplomatically (i.e. with fewer demands, words in all caps, and exclamation points). For an example of how this works, compare the amount of "Agrees" you're getting with the amount of "Agrees" on this post or this post, which are essentially arguing the same point as you.

Just remember that game devs are human beings, just like you. If I came up to you, as a perfect stranger, and started listing the things I "NEED" you to do, and telling you that there's "absolutely no excuse" you've not done them yet, how would you react? How would you feel? Would you be very inclined to listen to my suggestions?

Well, firstly, the comparison you make is flawed because of the sheer visibility of the different forums. More people dwell in the general section than here, which means fewer agrees. Also, this topic is only 5 hours old.

Secondly, caps can be used to put emphasis on words, in my case, the NEED of something and is not inherintely hostile.

Trhidly, I think the language I used was appropriate to the topic being discussed. You may see this differently, but for me these pink debug texts are a huge immersion break, and a pain in the butt. Plus taking away something that is standard in any other PDX game is a bit of a "wtf" moment for me.

Fourthly, with my toning of the "I can already cheat in ironman" argument I wanted to make clear how void of any reason it is to disable the console because of that.

Plus a reasonably voiced compromise suggestion at the end. I think this post does what it does well. As in pointing out the sheer sillyness of this descision while also trying to be constructive in working around this (in my opinion silly) descision.
Which is not to say that I don't understand your argument, I just don't agree with it in this particular case.