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StragaSevera

Kirov Reporting
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Dec 2, 2015
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Whenever I read about how strong civilian builds are, I'm always becoming stupefied on how they actually do work.

1. Take useful traits and civics, like Civil Education, Memorialists, Seasonal Dormancy or Lubrication Tanks (for machines, to get a lot of pops), etc.
2. Start a game, observe having a lot of civilians on your starting planet, be happy.
3. ???

Every time I build a new district or a building that produces resources, I'm depleting my pool of civilians. So, is the gameplay just... not building jobs? How exactly do I need to expand in this case? I'm totally lost.
 
You should build buildings normally civilian builds are just a nice way to boost your early game because building planets takes time.
And be boosting early game you can snowball earlier
 
Ignore the gimmicky exploit builds people have where they avoid jobs entirely. Just build a normal economy. Build tall (to allow your civilian pool to grow). Build 3 education buildings on every world, I recommend putting a commerical specialization row just for them. Just skip science jobs. That's all. I got 45k science this way in 2500. i think i had like 15k science in 2400. DEFINITELY use the consumer goods trade policy (make sure to have enough energy to replace the energy from trade). Also, make sure to make a holiday world, a trade world, and MAYBE even two consumer goods worlds. you sort of have to use utopian abundance to get the most out of it too. Also, never forget the fully upgraded autochton monument on every world. If you go bio ascension and make the applicable choices, don't forget all the genetic buildings that increase job efficiency, as those increase civilian efficiency. Not sure if this applies to all bio paths, but worth mentioning. The important things are civil education and seasonal dormancy, no idea what interaction memorialists has with this, what did you see there? Shared burdens is useful cause it forces dropping to civilian faster. Shelled is nice too (and can be combod with seasonal dormancy if you take the turtle portrait).

Edit: added a few sentences.
 
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no idea what interaction memorialists has with this, what did you see there?
Memorialists replaces the Monument chain of buildings with their own Sanctuaries that, in exchange for Mineral upkeep for the base building and Exotic Gases for the upgraded ones, give you Death Chronicler Jobs that produce Unity and boost Stability, on top of them getting the same buffs that Civilians do and the Sanctuary of Repose being a starting building if you begin the game with the Civic, saving you the 400 Minerals and roughly half a year of not having a Monument yet.

Edit: It actually replaces all instances of Bureaucrats with Death Chroniclers and gives them all Administrator bonuses (like Genetic Indentification's +1.5 Society Research), too!
 
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There's 4 components to a Civilian build. First component is your Ethics. Most players opt to have Egalitarian(if not Fanatic Egalitarian) for Utopian Abundance Living Standard. This applies a 20% Job Efficiency boost to Civilian strata(so your 20 starting Civilians are effectively 24) and yields 1 Unity and 1.5 Research per 100 Civilians at the cost of 1 CG in upkeep(and 1 CG of upkeep to all other strata). To cut down on that upkeep, you take the second component in Seasonal Dormancy Trait. Seasonal Dormancy can only be applied to Mammalian or Reptile species but cuts Pop Upkeep by 15%(for those with Jobs) and those w/o Jobs by 75%. Meaning instead of 1 CG, it's 0.85 CG per 100 Pops w/ a job and 0.25 CG for Civilians. This also applies to Food too so instead of 1 Food, you'll only consume 0.85 and 0.25 with Civilians so it pays to basically have as few jobs as possible.

The third component to a Civilian build is the Mercantile Tradition. Mercantile Tradition unlocks Consumer Benefits, a Trade Policy you will want to adopt because it converts Trade directly into Consumer Goods at the rate of 4 Trade: 1 CG. You'll need to make up the loss in Energy via Technician jobs but the Mercantile Tradition provides more than just the Trade Policy. You'll get +1 Trade and bonus Amenities per 100 Civilians at the cost of 0.10 CG upkeep(which CANNOT be reduced via Seasonal Dormancy). The fourth and key component is the Monument. The Monument applies Culture Worker effects to Civilians and the reason players pick Fanatic Egalitarian is because Civilians gain +2 Trade from Fanatic Egalitarian. Your Moderate Ethic pick is entirely up to you but I'd recommend Xenophile for two reasons. 1) You generate additional Trade Value from the Ethic itself but 2) You gain 0.625% Pop Upkeep per 100 Civilians. Stack enough Civilians and well... yeah... you'll eventually reach -90% Pop Upkeep threshold. The Monument also grants 0.50 Unity per 100 Civilians at the cost of 0.25 CG in upkeep(which like Mercantile cannot be reduced with Pop Upkeep because its effectively a job upkeep).

That is why Civics like Civil Education contain a Councilor post with Job Upkeep because it applies to Civilian modifiers such as that. Now without Civil Education, your Civilians will be producing 3+ Trade Value, 1.5 Unity, 1.5 Research(each) and Amenities for 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.25 or 0.6 CG(even less if you take Xenophile). Civil Education's Academies add 0.50 Research(each) for 1 CG upkeep and can stack up to 3 times. Meaning you can get 3+ Trade value, 1.5 Unity, 3 Research(each) and Amenities for 3.6 CG in upkeep. Of that 3.6, 3.35 is effectively Job Upkeep. The Civil Education Councilor post can cut that by 5%(level 10; 10% in total with Prosperity Tradition), resulting in roughly 3 CG in upkeep overall. That cannot match the output of Researchers, Traders and what not but Civilians have an **unlimited** cap and therein lies the early game **power** of a Civilian build because you can generate gobs of Unity, Tech and what not for little to no cost.

You then pair it with Parliamentary Systems to form Factions(which generate Unity that with Fanatic Egalitarian and the Civic have their Unity output almost doubled) and you can roll through Traditions so fast it's mindboggling. Can easily ascend by 2230, if not sooner.
 
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There's 4 components to a Civilian build. First component is your Ethics. Most players opt to have Egalitarian(if not Fanatic Egalitarian) for Utopian Abundance Living Standard. This applies a 20% Job Efficiency boost to Civilian strata(so your 20 starting Civilians are effectively 24) and yields 1 Unity and 1.5 Research per 100 Civilians at the cost of 1 CG in upkeep(and 1 CG of upkeep to all other strata). To cut down on that upkeep, you take the second component in Seasonal Dormancy Trait. Seasonal Dormancy can only be applied to Mammalian or Reptile species but cuts Pop Upkeep by 15%(for those with Jobs) and those w/o Jobs by 75%. Meaning instead of 1 CG, it's 0.85 CG per 100 Pops w/ a job and 0.25 CG for Civilians. This also applies to Food too so instead of 1 Food, you'll only consume 0.85 and 0.25 with Civilians so it pays to basically have as few jobs as possible.

The third component to a Civilian build is the Mercantile Tradition. Mercantile Tradition unlocks Consumer Benefits, a Trade Policy you will want to adopt because it converts Trade directly into Consumer Goods at the rate of 4 Trade: 1 CG. You'll need to make up the loss in Energy via Technician jobs but the Mercantile Tradition provides more than just the Trade Policy. You'll get +1 Trade and bonus Amenities per 100 Civilians at the cost of 0.10 CG upkeep(which CANNOT be reduced via Seasonal Dormancy). The fourth and key component is the Monument. The Monument applies Culture Worker effects to Civilians and the reason players pick Fanatic Egalitarian is because Civilians gain +2 Trade from Fanatic Egalitarian. Your Moderate Ethic pick is entirely up to you but I'd recommend Xenophile for two reasons. 1) You generate additional Trade Value from the Ethic itself but 2) You gain 0.625% Pop Upkeep per 100 Civilians. Stack enough Civilians and well... yeah... you'll eventually reach -90% Pop Upkeep threshold. The Monument also grants 0.50 Unity per 100 Civilians at the cost of 0.25 CG in upkeep(which like Mercantile cannot be reduced with Pop Upkeep because its effectively a job upkeep).

That is why Civics like Civil Education contain a Councilor post with Job Upkeep because it applies to Civilian modifiers such as that. Now without Civil Education, your Civilians will be producing 3+ Trade Value, 1.5 Unity, 1.5 Research(each) and Amenities for 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.25 or 0.6 CG(even less if you take Xenophile). Civil Education's Academies add 0.50 Research(each) for 1 CG upkeep and can stack up to 3 times. Meaning you can get 3+ Trade value, 1.5 Unity, 3 Research(each) and Amenities for 3.6 CG in upkeep. Of that 3.6, 3.35 is effectively Job Upkeep. The Civil Education Councilor post can cut that by 5%(level 10; 10% in total with Prosperity Tradition), resulting in roughly 3 CG in upkeep overall. That cannot match the output of Researchers, Traders and what not but Civilians have an **unlimited** cap and therein lies the early game **power** of a Civilian build because you can generate gobs of Unity, Tech and what not for little to no cost.

You then pair it with Parliamentary Systems to form Factions(which generate Unity that with Fanatic Egalitarian and the Civic have their Unity output almost doubled) and you can roll through Traditions so fast it's mindboggling. Can easily ascend by 2230, if not sooner.
don't forget that the civil education buildings can not only stack three times, but each of those three can upgrade once for even more buffs to your civilians.
 
If you do opt for a Civilian build may I recommend you go down the Cloning path with a Mutation -> Purity -> Cloning flex pick path. Cloning has the highest Pop Growth of the three Genetic paths thanks to their Clone Vats(that require no jobs), hence benefits Civilian builds immensely since you need tons of Pops to generate lots of Civilians. Clone Vats can be built in Urban and Commercial Zones. I also recommend Overtuned origin such that you can access Biomorphosis earlier and have Gene Tailoring from the start(so all you need to finish the Ascension situation is to build Genomic Research Labs right at the start). Do note that Cloning cannot add/remove traits as easily as Mutation or Purity can so plan your traits accordingly(usually requiring you start with Negative traits and adding in your Positive ones later).

You can achieve 85% Job Efficiency this way provided you hit 200% Habitability on your Colonies(so upgrade them to Gaia/Ecumenopolis). That 85% stacks with Utopian Abundance 20%. Also Genomic Researchers yield a Pop Upkeep bonus of 2.5% per Researcher. Meaning you’ll have roughly 20% from them alone.
 
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Kind of had a sobering play experience when testing my old builds for the new mechanics. My "Apex" build is a Become the Crisis rush build that spends His first two decades rushing unity. It always used to have a really tight build order, but now it's actually depressingly easy to get great unity returns without trying very hard just my optimizing for maintenance drones. And I don't even have to sacrifice tech to do it either, since Natural Neural Network takes care of all of it.
 
Kind of had a sobering play experience when testing my old builds for the new mechanics. My "Apex" build is a Become the Crisis rush build that spends His first two decades rushing unity. It always used to have a really tight build order, but now it's actually depressingly easy to get great unity returns without trying very hard just my optimizing for maintenance drones. And I don't even have to sacrifice tech to do it either, since Natural Neural Network takes care of all of it.
what does this have to do with utopian abundant civil education builds? i think you replied to the wrong thread