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"Improved Grand Campaign" Project

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Originally posted by Sytass:
Given what I stated above, I think the idea of making Holstein a Danish vassal is a good idea, with the cot moved to Mecklenburg (the m in Mecklenburg in the game could be a typo), as this more accurately reflects the position of Lübeck, queen of the Hanse. (Lies today on the border between Mecklenburg and Holstein.)
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Save the vassalisation, this is exactly the situation in Doomdark 1.1. I like this concept very much (i.e. Holstein independent, Hansa still there, but reduced and cot in Lübeck) and would want to keep it that way. But Doomie has the right to change his own patch, of course. :)

Hartmann
 
Well, I could be wrong about Pommerania, but as I said I do believe it was an independent Duchy until 1637.

IMO, the Hansa is way too powerful in the game compared to real history. It was a merchant league, period. Sometimes it fought naval battles to protect its mercantile interests, and it wielded great political punch, but it would never have dreamed of annexing Jylland (let alone have the power to do so) like it does so frequently in the game.

Holstein might be beefed up a little to protect it from the Dane, and it is probably a good idea to remove it as a Danish core province, but I think it definitely belongs in the GC. To a lesser degree, so do Pommerania and Mecklenburg.

Lastly, remember that after 1.06, annexing countries is a good way to increase your badboy value. Dramatically.

/Doomdark
 
Originally posted by Doomdark:
I hate to lose nations, but if pressed I would chose to drop:
1)Mahratti States
2)Bantu States
3)Cyrenaica
4)Provence
5)Aragon
6)Corsica
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NOOO!! Are you going to improve the GC by DELETING Aragon?? In 1492 it was nothing but a vassal of Spain, and stayed that way until 1714. I believe saying Sweden was part of Denmark in 1492 is more accurate than saying that Aragon didnt exist at all in this time frame(I KNOW ILL GET IN TROUBLE NOW :))

pcongre
 
Originally posted by Lubricus:
Removing Holstein from the Hansa minor has been discussed in another thread, and I think it was generally agrred that it could be done only if the COT was moved to Bremen or Mecklemburg. Pommerania didn't exist as an independent state, AFAIK. Leave the rest of Hansa as it is, and make Holstein (which already exists) a separate country, possibly even a Danish vassal. While Hansa might not be an ideal approximation to the situation in those parts of Germany in the EU period, I consider it a lot better than giving independence to Pommerania. Besides, a lot of people would probably object to having even more German minors.
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Eastern Pomerania and Western Pomerania was a independent Duchy since 1000ad till 16th century until Brandenburg and Sweden took control.
 
Originally posted by Pomerania Prince:
Eastern Pomerania and Western Pomerania was a independent Duchy since 1000ad till 16th century until Brandenburg and Sweden took control.
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So at least this will make a TWO province minor! :) Still a bit sad about the shredding of the Hansa, though. :( And where to get the additional slot, without some serious 'wrongdoing'?

I also think, that Aragon is indispensable, btw.

Regards, Hartmann
 
Well, I am all for discussion... If the Hansa goes we must make sure that the replacements are well balanced. The Hansa should be in the game as a merchant presence only, but we can't have that without making it a nation. To be sure, the North German states were weaker than their southern cousins because their largest cities were controlled by the Hansa.

pcongre,

I was wrong about Aragon. It has to stay in the game. :)

/Doomie
 
Compromise for Greece,
Use the white cross on the blue backgroung, but add a Black Byzantine Eagle in the center. Greek revolutionaries in the 1830's were tied with the Byzantine Empire, and even today Greece is more Byzantine than Hellenic.

As for Greek generals, I think they shoud be 2/1/2/0. They should have good movement stats and good melee combat. Greek partisans were adept at moving in the Mountains. Also, give Greece very cheap infantry, low manpower, very expensive cavalry and moderate artillery. Horses are rare in the rugged Greek terrain, and Hellas has never been know for its cavalry. Also, make Greek rulers have good economic and diplomatic stats. Also, give Greece a high trade level, Greek traders were among the best in the Medditerranean.

Put Greece in the Latin or Orthoodx tech group tech group, I dont know which is better for them. Greece is probably closer to Italy than Slavic nations scienifically, so maybe Latin. But the religion should be Orthodox of course.

Greek admirals should be 2/2/1, Greek pirates really tore up the Aegean. Also, give Greece really, really, cheap galleys and expensive Warships and transports.

Also, here are some random Greek names for the Greeks leaders and admirals: Konstantinos, Paleologus, Cantazecus, Papadopoulos, Philos, Vasilis, Yorgos, Nikos, Kolokotrones, Kariasakis, Canaris.

Man, this is gonna be o awesome, when will you get this out?
 
Again on the Hansa topic:

Holstein was basically a vassall of Denmark. And the other provinces that make up the Hansa either become independent duchies soon, or were integrated into existing countries. At 1492, the start of the GC in EU, the influence of the Hansa had dwindled far enough to leave it virtually powerless. I'd suggest still vassalizing Holstein to Denmark with a good chance of revolting, while the other provinces are economically strong (still), but militarily weak, maybe even with low stability (quarreling member cities). However, Doomdark, it's your patch. :)

In the current GC I play, the Hansa definitely is too strong (EU V1.01). By 1620 it has conquered the Danish mainland (Jylland and Copenhaguen), wagung wars with the (large) Poland/Lithuania and Russia.

------------------
Attrition is not a strategy. Attrition is the apparent lack of strategy. (Sun Tzu)
 
Sweet!
Now give aragó columbus and you'll become my hero ;) Nah, seriously, just remember Naples is a aragonese vassal and Mallorca isnt a prussian province and I'll be happy :)

PS: a hard question is where to place its capital.. the king of aragon was king of lots of small kingdoms, so he had to be on the move talking with noblemen of all over his country, there was no real capital. And even if the king stayed mainly in barcelona from 988 to the XV century, after that valencia was the city where the king spent most of his time ..I guess we still have lots of time to debate this matter :)
 
I guess we still have lots of time to debate this matter
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We have all the time in the world, although I will go on vacation next week. Time to visit my sugar plantations on fair Hispaniola... ;)

Seriously, I am going to the Dominican Republic for some R&R.

About Aragon, are you saying that it was still independent in 1492?

/Doomie
 
Hartmann
I've done Greece and Ethiopia tonight and put them on the website. (Didn't know about the Byzantine Eagle but maybe I could add it later). Made a compromise with Ethiopia. Kept the lion on the shield but left it out from the flag. I also did the Ragusa shields but no flag yet. I don't think I can cope with another flag tonight. The 25 frames of animation is a real bitch. And besides, adding Ragusa seems still be up for debate.
 
Originally posted by Doomdark:
About Aragon, are you saying that it was still independent in 1492?
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Note: you can skip til the * if you wanna :)

Theorically, yes
The Castilian-Leonese king that now also was the Aragonese was supposed to have the obligation of going to the Courts of Barcelona, Zaragoza and València(+Pamplona, in Navarra and Lisboa later on) to give noblemen there a good reason not to rebel against them(bribes, not having to pay as much as the other kingdoms in spain, priviliges, osv), coz they were never threatened, they could have refused being vassals if they wanted(theorically, again, if they did so they would instead be vassals by force, it was just a matter of time :)).
But lots of laws remained the same after the marriage of Fernando and Isabel, in all of the kingdoms and duchies and so on, even if these laws mostly werent respected. 'Ley es lo que manda el rey', ie 'if the king wants something he'll get it wether you like or not' This was the way they dealt with Aragon all the time.
And when that war in 15** against france broke out-the one in which france annexed rosselló(I think its called rousillion in french)- troops from Castile came and defended catalunya with the help of a aragonese army that only existed in case Aragó was invaded.
After years of decrease of every single sort of power, the aragonese, catalan, valencian and balearic noblemen turned their sights(probably foolishly) to the austrian emperor instead of to the french one when the spanish war of succession broke out. They lost, so all their laws and privileges suddenly dissapeared

* So, what I mean is:
I dont have the game, but I think a vassal country in EU pays to the stronger country half of his income and has to help him in exchange if the lil poor is in military trouble. And so it was historically in Spain. So Aragó shouldnt be totally independent, that wouldnt be historical, but a vassalage would be grate.

[This message has been edited by pcongre (edited 30-01-2001).]
 
I bring great news!

I have found another unused country that works perfectly: SPR. It appears to be some sort of Spanish rebel nation that never made it into the game. All you have to do is add some building costs and it will work.

So, Novgorod is not a problem anymore... :)

/Doomie
 
McGuinn,

Impressive work on the shields! Do you think you could do the shields and flag for Novgorod too? I hate working with 8 bit graphics.

I've been trying to find the appropriate coat of arms for Novgorod, and although the info is hard to come by it seems that the colors should be yellow and blue, a bit like the modern Ukrainian flag rotated 90 degrees to the right. The coat of arms show two black bears flanking a gilded throne with a red seat.
http://flags-by-swi.com/fotw/flags/ru-ngr.html

/Doomie
 
McGuinn, maybe you could use one of the Middle Eastern Nations, like say maybe Turkey, Egypt or Persia, or something unit graphics for Greece? That would be closer to what they wore historically.
Heres a page with some pictures of Greek uniforms and military dress- http://www.nostos.com/greekrev/

It only gives upper body, but the lower body was a white skirt and tights. As you can see the Western European Unit Graphics are improper, and some middle eastern Nation's would be better.
 
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