I am considering making some tweaks to make Lostech more viable. Here's what I am currently considering:
Thoughts? Would you use these items now?
Thoughts? Would you use these items now?
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It's no secret that most of the lostech weapons are lack luster when compared to some of the standard + weapons out there. This might be one area where HBS has dug themselves a balancing hole that might be very difficult to climb out of.
Your list is a start and as a mod is probably;y a good way to go, I think your numbers look fine although I am not sure about adding heat ti the ER small laser family. There needs to be pros/cons to any changes other wise it just becomes a straight out power creep upgrade. Test it and see how it plays out.
IMO the pulse laser family of weapons is poorly implemented. They are frankly not worth the extra weight in most cases for the added damage out put. Their value increases on mechs which have limited energy hard points, but generally speaking there is no point taking a 2 ton MPL when you can take 2ML for more damage and don't care if they get destroyed. That said I would like to see Pulse laser mechanics work differently to just being another type of laser with different stats. I would like to see them act more like multiple smaller weapons with an overall increase in damage. As an example a Large Pulse Laser would have a damage output of 75 but each of 3 separate pulses would roll for different 25 points hits much as 3 ML would do. Think of them more like laser machine guns, relatively high damage but spread out. As accuracy increases then the chance to hit the same spot goes up, this would also increase with + weapons.
The ERLL and ERPPC are not worth the heat over standard weapons at the ranges most maps and the visual range let you play at in this game. Might as well just take the standard weapons IMO
Your list is a start and as a mod is probably;y a good way to go, I think your numbers look fine although I am not sure about adding heat ti the ER small laser family. There needs to be pros/cons to any changes other wise it just becomes a straight out power creep upgrade. Test it and see how it plays out.
IMO the pulse laser family of weapons is poorly implemented. They are frankly not worth the extra weight in most cases for the added damage out put. Their value increases on mechs which have limited energy hard points, but generally speaking there is no point taking a 2 ton MPL when you can take 2ML for more damage and don't care if they get destroyed. That said I would like to see Pulse laser mechanics work differently to just being another type of laser with different stats. I would like to see them act more like multiple smaller weapons with an overall increase in damage. As an example a Large Pulse Laser would have a damage output of 75 but each of 3 separate pulses would roll for different 25 points hits much as 3 ML would do. Think of them more like laser machine guns, relatively high damage but spread out. As accuracy increases then the chance to hit the same spot goes up, this would also increase with + weapons.
The ERLL and ERPPC are not worth the heat over standard weapons at the ranges most maps and the visual range let you play at in this game. Might as well just take the standard weapons IMO
I like your idea of making pulse = laser machine guns. So taking a Medium Pulse as an example, would you make it 3x10 for damage? Then how would you handle the numbers for + and ++ varieties.
For small lasers, I am still not sure which one I would use:
The extra range on the ER version might make it more attractive than the chart would suggest however.
For small lasers, I am still not sure which one I would use:
The extra range on the ER version might make it more attractive than the chart would suggest however.
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I do like the idea with the changes to the Pulse Lasers. It would make them more like I remember from MW2: Mercs where they fired like machine guns but built up heat fast.
For + weapons I think I would increase the number of pulses as well as the damage, whilst rolling in an increased chance to hit the same spot. So following on from your 3*10 MPL I would make a MPL+ do 4*10dmg with a roll for successive shots to hit the same spot. So instead of the MPL hitting for example LA, LT, CT the MPL+ would hit LA, LT, LT, CT or some such variation. Like wise MPL++ could go 5*10. However you would still want the damage to spread otherwise they compete too well with LL and PPC. I would limit it to a max of 3 pulses hitting the same spot, ie LA, LT, LT, LT, CT or even LA, LA, LT, CT, CT. I don't know how hard that is to code but I think the machine gun rolls work that way.
ERSL have always competed in the same space as ML, like wise ERML tend to replace LL. In both cases saving weight and space. For the same weight and tonnage though I see no reason to not take the ERSL in what ever + version you have provide you have the heat capacity to deal with it, other wise find half a tonne and take a ML. IMO SL in general are only of use on tonnage limited mechs (lights) with many energy hardpoints and then you boat them to get a high alpha, I strip small lasers from all my mechs that have them and put it into armor usually. I also tend to take MG over SL on backstabbing mechs like Firestartes and Grasshoppers because it lets me run larger high heat weapons and can still shoot at near over heat. For example I usually run 2PPC and 6MG on a Grasshopper and 4ML, 4MG on firestarter, but everyone plays different
ERSL have always competed in the same space as ML, like wise ERML tend to replace LL. In both cases saving weight and space. For the same weight and tonnage though I see no reason to not take the ERSL in what ever + version you have provide you have the heat capacity to deal with it, other wise find half a tonne and take a ML. IMO SL in general are only of use on tonnage limited mechs (lights) with many energy hardpoints and then you boat them to get a high alpha, I strip small lasers from all my mechs that have them and put it into armor usually. I also tend to take MG over SL on backstabbing mechs like Firestartes and Grasshoppers because it lets me run larger high heat weapons and can still shoot at near over heat. For example I usually run 2PPC and 6MG on a Grasshopper and 4ML, 4MG on firestarter, but everyone plays different
One of the things I would do first is to change the + versions of normal weapons.
Originally, the stated reason for scaling all damage and armor by five was to allow manufacturer variants to have smaller increases than possible with the original TT scale... and then they went and made the manufacturer variants increase damage in multiples of five.
Originally, the stated reason for scaling all damage and armor by five was to allow manufacturer variants to have smaller increases than possible with the original TT scale... and then they went and made the manufacturer variants increase damage in multiples of five.
I have revised the initial plan somewhat as follows.
I basically want to make it a difficult decision on which item to use compared to the best ++, +++ items in each category and have a niche for different types of weapons. How does it look?
I basically want to make it a difficult decision on which item to use compared to the best ++, +++ items in each category and have a niche for different types of weapons. How does it look?
They will be similar to machine guns in that they will fire three separate attacks. For example, the M Pulse base model would be 3x10 attacks for 30 total. This would be both an advantage and a disadvantage depending on how you look at it.
This is based on data on Sarna that follows TT ruleset.
Quote: "The Extended-Range Large Laser (ER Large Laser) focuses a powerful beam of light on targets that causes damage by overheating or melting the target."
and "Extended-Range Medium Laser (ER Medium Laser) focuses a powerful beam of light on targets that causes damage by melting or shattering armor off of the target."
which they footnote TechManual, p. 226, "Laser - Extended-Range (ER) Laser" as the source
It would also give the weapon a minor niche use instead of everything being about dmg per heat and weight.
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I mean have you tried to make it in-game? Cause vanilla not supporting multi-shot lasers. Machine gun firing effect have completely different implementation.
Hmm, so far I had just been planning, but after testing it appears only the first attack will hit. Is this the behavior you are describing?
Sarna.net describes vanilla lasers working exactly the same way as ER lasers:
"Standard lasers were introduced during the Age of War and cause damage by firing an intense beam of light at a target, flooding concentrated energy in the form of heat, which can melt material and overwhelm heat-sensitive electronics. "
The mechanic you describe, of a laser increasing a target's overall total temperature (heat), would make lasers actually less efficient, when you consider the physics.
For a laser to be effective it needs to focus the energy carried by the photons at a very specific point of the target, in order for reach the temperatures requires for it to melt/etc.
If the laser is instead increasing the target's overall temperature, that means that the beam isn't properly focused and the energy is being dissipated through the entire target, resulting in lesser damage.
For my purposes, I guess I am willing to suspend belief in actual physics as BT has done in a number of other areas to get LosTech somewhat viable. I definitely am open to suggestions on how to accomplish that. I did not realize regular lasers had a similar description, so my "justification" of the mechanics is obviously tenuous.
I did envision that ER lasers had more heat waste that might explain in my mind the proposed mechanic and the increased heat to use them.
Exactly. Vanilla autocannon, gauss and PPC have same behavior.
Autocannon (gauss same effect) is using ProjectilesPerShot but it is just visual - damage inflicted once.
PPC and laser are not using nor ProjectilesPerShot nor ShotsWhenFired
BurstBallistic (machine gun) using ShotsWhenFired but just internally (not for visual)
Missile launcher is using ShotsWhenFired both internally and visually but not ProjectilesPerShot.
In fiction, any suspension of belief just needs to be internally integrated with the rest and logic of the story, without contradictions, and the reader will usually accept it.
To me more heat waste would more likely apply to during the weapon's discharge, thus affecting the firing 'Mech', or the laser energy being lost through thermal blooming while traveling through the atmosphere, the heat waste being applied to the target would be my last choice, but might be plausible. I'm not an physics expert either, but I logically I can accept that laser's increased power for ER also results in more waste heat been dissipated upon reaching the target rather than dealing actual damage.
But looking at the rest of the lostech weapons, one then pops into mind: why don't the Pulse Lasers also get the same +heat to target since they also have increased power?
I would say that the solution is obvious; add Lostech + weapons to the game.
The whole point is that not all medium lasers are created equal, each weapon type is a standardization of weapon systems produced by multiple manufacturers over hundreds of ljght years of known space. Weapons were either lesser or greater quality, and some may have been aftermarket modified.
This sort of thing could never really be implemented on tabletop, with all the ad nauseum additional dice modifiers .
But in a PC game, all the numbers are crunched instantly, which is one thing I really love about this game
The whole point is that not all medium lasers are created equal, each weapon type is a standardization of weapon systems produced by multiple manufacturers over hundreds of ljght years of known space. Weapons were either lesser or greater quality, and some may have been aftermarket modified.
This sort of thing could never really be implemented on tabletop, with all the ad nauseum additional dice modifiers .
But in a PC game, all the numbers are crunched instantly, which is one thing I really love about this game
There are currently LosTech +, ++ weapons in the game. They are extremely rare but are totally inferior to other weapons in the game to the point that once you get them, you would never use them. That is why I wanted to tune them to the other vanilla weapons without a massive rebalance mod like some have resorted to.