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[MOD] SWMH 2.0 Map, de jure and general history mod. For a superior CK2 experience

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New version has been uploaded(version 2.32b)

Changelog:
Fixes adjencies
Fixes title files: the langrave of Hesse now holds the county when he should, Ernst of Österreich holds Kuenring, Schaumburg and Holstein is joined at the point when they should(1106)

Link

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?hsl8lajhi72f44v
 
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Aasmul said:
You did have a hand it too:p, if there is more things you you think should be changed(Ruwaard has already said I should shrink Celje, but there could be other issues in Austria/Slovenia), I will be happy to do so.



Will hand it to Ernst in the next propper update. I have a whole little list of minor HRE(mostly Saxony related) stuff that needs changeing.
Click to expand...

For some inspiration for the south of the 'Austrian Lands' (Austria & Slovenia), especially for the border between Cilli/Celje and Carniola/Krain ( and a little bit for Carinthia/Kärnten & Styria/Steiermark) you could take a look at the set up used in latest version of Map Mod Resketched Provinces (0.2 version) by Talvos. Especially Cilli should be inside the borders of the province of Steiermark in that mod.

I also found an old map of the Austrian Province (in the Empire of Austria) of Styria. Cilli corresponds with the pink part of that map.
https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Steiermark_Perthes_1855.jpg&file
 
Ruwaard said:
For some inspiration for the south of the 'Austrian Lands' (Austria & Slovenia), especially for the border between Cilli/Celje and Carniola/Krain ( and a little bit for Carinthia/Kärnten & Styria/Steiermark) you could take a look at the set up used in latest version of Map Mod Resketched Provinces (0.2 version) by Talvos. Especially Cilli should be inside the borders of the province of Steiermark in that mod.

I also found an old map of the Austrian Province (in the Empire of Austria) of Styria. Cilli corresponds with the pink part of that map.
https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Steiermark_Perthes_1855.jpg&file
Click to expand...

Thank you, will see if I can improve the Eastern march
 
One map is about Austia in 1282 I found on the web a while ago. :)

Another map, on wiki commons, of the HRE you probably already have:). (G. Droysen, (1886), HRE um (around) 1250).



 osterrike1282.gif

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Heiliges_Römisches_Reich_um_1250.png
 
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Arko said:
mm... this funky map is absolutly...funky^^
I used it too. It's a hell of tiny demesnes. We know why PI made HRE so simplified^^
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It is a nice map(I wish I had seen it before:sad:), but then again many of the counties changed a lot over the time(I did not realise Tecklenburg ever got that big:unsure:) so its more of a snapshot.
Luckely many of the smaller states was bigger states that had been broken up by gavelkind succesion(Hohenloe, Anhalt, Salm(although even the base one was tiny) etc.) so putting the little pieces back into the "mother"county removes many of the littles ones.
 
Aasmul said:
It is a nice map(I wish I had seen it before:sad:), but then again many of the counties changed a lot over the time(I did not realise Tecklenburg ever got that big:unsure:) so its more of a snapshot.
Luckely many of the smaller states was bigger states that had been broken up by gavelkind succesion(Hohenloe, Anhalt, Salm(although even the base one was tiny) etc.) so putting the little pieces back into the "mother"county removes many of the littles ones.
Click to expand...

It is really usefull as it the more detailled one I found too.
 
Arko said:
It is really usefull as it the more detailled one I found too.
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yes but like all the other maps of the HRE it can lead one in wrong direction in some places. With the HRE I have found I have to read as many maps I can, then find the correct barronies and plot them so I can se where they fit(almost all the old maps have something really badly screwed up geograpicly that one only notices this way)
 
Bloodmerchant said:
I fixed around some baronies because some didn't match what was on the map.

View attachment 57303

View attachment 57304
Click to expand...

Im trying to get a feeling of the region, and the provinces(its not the place im most familiar with...), about the list of provinces you uploaded I can see that some provinces are to be removed, Vasprukan being one, but what others?
 
Aasmul said:
Im trying to get a feeling of the region, and the provinces(its not the place im most familiar with...), about the list of provinces you uploaded I can see that some provinces are to be removed, Vasprukan being one, but what others?
Click to expand...

I think these would be additions, but I'd be fine if I had to remove a few provinces (not vanilla) of mine. And Vaspurakan wouldn't be removed, it'd be shrunk down to size.
 
Bloodmerchant said:
I think these would be additions, but I'd be fine if I had to remove a few provinces (not vanilla) of mine. And Vaspurakan wouldn't be removed, it'd be shrunk down to size.
Click to expand...

Okay, I just couldn't find the province in the list you made.

about the number of provinces. Im counting 17 new ones? As I said before Im no expert on the region, but wouldn't it be a bit out proportions if thinking on the population density?(if I appear ignorant its because I am:rolleyes:).
Im not going to insists on a particular number but I have a feeling that adding that many would alter the balance in the region a bit much(when I say balance, I mean after the other nearby regions have been reworked, until then imbalances is unavoidable)
 
Aasmul said:
Okay, I just couldn't find the province in the list you made.

about the number of provinces. Im counting 17 new ones? As I said before Im no expert on the region, but wouldn't it be a bit out proportions if thinking on the population density?(if I appear ignorant its because I am:rolleyes:).
Im not going to insists on a particular number but I have a feeling that adding that many would alter the balance in the region a bit much(when I say balance, I mean after the other nearby regions have been reworked, until then imbalances is unavoidable)
Click to expand...


Well, considering at the time prior to the Seljuk invasion, the city of Ani had at least 100,000-150,000 citizens and the city of Dwin had about 50,000-80,000 citizens. And later after the recapture of Tblisi from the Muslims, it was settled by Georgians (while still maintaining a significant Muslim population), and it had at least 100,000 citizens. By comparison, the city of London had 18,000 citizens at the beginning of the 12th century and grew to about 100,000 at the start of the 14th century. And also I'd have to consider that from the 12th century till the 15th saw a rise in population growth, due to the medieval warm period, aside from plagues, natural disasters and massacres, so I would believe that the population of Transcaucasia was roughly a million to two million. I'll work on which provinces to cut out if some of the provinces don't work out.
 
Bloodmerchant said:
Well, considering at the time prior to the Seljuk invasion, the city of Ani had at least 100,000-150,000 citizens and the city of Dwin had about 50,000-80,000 citizens. And later after the recapture of Tblisi from the Muslims, it was settled by Georgians (while still maintaining a significant Muslim population), and it had at least 100,000 citizens. By comparison, the city of London had 18,000 citizens at the beginning of the 12th century and grew to about 100,000 at the start of the 14th century. And also I'd have to consider that from the 12th century till the 15th saw a rise in population growth, due to the medieval warm period, aside from plagues, natural disasters and massacres, so I would believe that the population of Transcaucasia was roughly a million to two million. I'll work on which provinces to cut out if some of the provinces don't work out.
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Well I did say I was ignorant:p btw London was a tiny city in the middleages(Roskilde in DK was actually the biggest in northern europe in 900-1150 but then it got sidetracked by the upcomming Hansa cities)
Anyway im only talking about removing 1-3 provinces, but to begin with I will make all and then they can be cut if needed.

im trying to sketch the provinces atm, and I noticed that you have written that Odishi should be cut of Guria, and bordering Abkhazia. The problem is that Guria dosn't border Abkhazia, should Odishi also contain part of other provinces?
 
Aasmul said:
Well I did say I was ignorant:p btw London was a tiny city in the middleages(Roskilde in DK was actually the biggest in northern europe in 900-1150 but then it got sidetracked by the upcomming Hansa cities)
Anyway im only talking about removing 1-3 provinces, but to begin with I will make all and then they can be cut if needed.

im trying to sketch the provinces atm, and I noticed that you have written that Odishi should be cut of Guria, and bordering Abkhazia. The problem is that Guria dosn't border Abkhazia, should Odishi also contain part of other provinces?
Click to expand...

And I would think Imeretia's border should be pushed a little to the west, with Odishi at its southern border, think I made a mistake there and got it confused.
 
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