Need historical input for AH Scenario

[Chengar Qordath]

I am planning on designing an alternate history scenario, and I could use some input to make it better.

My first scenario begins with the Templars deciding that, rather than spend all their time in very unreligious activities after the fall of the Crusader states, they should sell off all of the land they had acquired, and use it to hire a large mercenary force to reconquer the Holy Land. The main change is the presence of the approximate area of the original four crusader states under the authority of the Knights Templar. I am now interested in gaining some input on the other effects of this 10th Crusade.

 

[unmerged(598)]

Chengar, it's been more than 10 years since I did any reading on the crusades, but for any European foothold to survive in Palestine it would require the Muslim states to remain divided. That's a radical departure from history, and tough to preserve for more than a few years.

In the face of Ottoman expansion, preservation of a new Crusader state would require the retardation of the Ottomans, several strong independent Muslim states which trust and ally with the crusaders, combined with an early colonization policy by the Europeans. What this does to the area is very difficult to predict. Certainly, I don't think any expansion across the Bosphorus would be done before the Europeans were thrown out of Palestine so this area is likely to face an onslaught by the Turks for 150 years to get to 1492. Hard to see them surviving without a major historic change.

 

[Chengar Qordath]

Not that hard, the Templars were filthy rich, so they could certainly put all that money to good use buying mercenaries and allies. Also, the Mongols are striking in the middle east around this time, so it is not inconceivable that the Muslim states could be thrown off balance by the two events, and take some time to recover. The time period where the divergence occurs in the middle of a big power vacuum. The Mongols are destroying the Seljuk superiority, and it is a while before the Turks can replace the Seljuks. A 10th Crusade at this time would have been very effective.

I think the scenario is much more likely than any of the ones where the less than 10.000 defenders of Constantinople manage to repulse the Ottoman army of 90.000 and Byzantium still exists.

 

[unmerged(598)]

Chengar, I don't necesarily think that the Templar capture of Palestine is extraordinarily difficult, but holding that territory in the 15th century is going to need a major change. The Turks expanded into Asia minor and captured Constantinople. Adding a Christian state to their south will draw the focus of their military during this period. Unless the Templars have some allies, or the Turks do not grow as strong IRL then the Templar state is not going to last very long.

Perhaps a Byzantine resurgence and expansion into Asia minor, combined with some good Muslim allies to split the opposition to a Christian state might work. This is certainly going to change the Balkans as it's unlikely that the Turks would be strong enough to cross the Bosphoros if they could not deal with a hostile kingdom to their south.

 

[Chengar Qordath]

I was thinking that Byzantium would still be in exisence, probably most of Turkey's Balkan provinces, and maybe a little territory in Asia Minor. The Turks would probably be under the control of a tribe other than the Ottomans as well. The Templars would probably have one or two moslem allies they bought off, the Templars certainly had enough money. I am still undecided on how this should effect the other Moslem nations as well. I think I should probably make some of the nations that fought the Turks, like Venice and Hungary, a little stronger. The Byzantines should probably have a CB and low relations with Venice.

I was also thinking about what effect this Templar restoration would have on the Knights of St. John, I doubt they would sit by and watch the Templars get so strong. I think that I will probably make the Templars and the Knights of St. John allies, but with really low relations, a rather historical setup.

 

[unmerged(234)]

Originally posted by Chengar Qordath
Not that hard, the Templars were filthy rich, so they could certainly put all that money to good use buying mercenaries and allies...

The thing is at up until the fall of the last crusader state they where using the money for just that (and mostly for maintaing the big fortresses they had in the region). The whole system of money lending and holdings which made them rich was created to maintain theire precense in the holy land. It would have taken some diunity be the muslims and the support of someone else for them to manage to reesatblish theire prescens, maybe if they convined one of the major European states (and the Pope) to support an other Crusade under the control of the Templars.

 

[Chengar Qordath]

At the time there was a rather large Mongol army headed for Iraq. I think that would have certainly occupied the Turks while the Templars attacked. The Byzantines would also probably take advantage of the situation, and the Hospitallers would probably do something. The key to Templar success would be that they are striking right when the Moslem world is facing it's greatest crises, by the time the Turks could recover, the Templars would already be firmly established.