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Majorball

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We have tried playing with a reduce list of guidelines but this has not worked with the new players we now have in the group. This has caused some confusion. These are the Aussie rules with a couple of additions rules 22 & 23. Please add any commnets to this thread and I propose we use them for our next game if all agree:

1) All rule discussions will take place on the forums under the appropriate thread.

2) Semi Historical game.

Diplomacy and war entry guidelines

3) No major or minor war until Danzig event unless already at war or by an event.

4) No one may Ally a minor country until the Danzig event has fired. Then anyone may Ally anyone they choose.

5) Guidelines for USA & Japan entry:

a) Base USA war entry is 1st January 1942.

b) Each separate Axis DOW/Alliance with the following countries: Turkey, Spain, Tibet, Persia brings forward USA entry by 6 months e.g. and attack on Spain would allow USA to join the war 1 July 1941(may not DOW Japan unless Tibet was the country attacked). If Turkey and Persia are DOW/brought in to alliance USA may enter 1st January 1941.Italy may enter when Paris is captured and it must be after March 1940.

c) The reverse is also true: Should the UK ally with anyone of the above countries USA war entry is put back 6 months. No CW troops in the Med(SA,NZ & and Australia must remain in their home provinces until Italy is in the war).

d) However Japan may DOW UK & USA anytime from start of 1941 & USA may enter immediately should Japan DOW on the UK. Saying this any events which fire due to a successful Sealion may be honoured. The only CW puppets allowed in the Med prior to war with Italy are Oman, Yemen and Iraq.

e) Should Gibraltar be captured the USA may send unlimited Destroyers and CVL ships to the UK. This in addition to the 6 months reduction for Spanish attack. This is needed for the extra length of UK convoys. Canadian troops may be deployed to Europe or the UK only after Danzig event.

f) Also should Russia not be attacked by 1st June 1942 the USA may enter the European war at anytime. This is needed so we do not end up with a farcical UK vs. German/Italy for years on end because of some deal made with the Russians.

g) If Russia decides to enter the war over a Sweden or Turkey attack the 6 month reduction for USA entry does not apply.

h) USA is not required to join...but they may.

6) Guidelines for Italian war entry:

a) Italy may enter when Paris is captured and it must be after March 1940 ie 1st April onwards.

b) No CW troops in the Med(SA,NZ & and Australia must remain in their home provinces until Italy is in the war).

c) The only CW puppets allowed in the Med prior to war with Italy are Oman, Yemen and Iraq.

d) Canadian troops may be deployed to Europe or the UK only after Danzig event.

e) CW troops may leave their home country if an Ally brought into the Axis in their region. These troops can only be used for attacking such a minor and Axis forces within that country.

f) Italy may attack Yugoslavia prior to joining Axis alliance after 1st Jan 1940 to avoid other minor countries honouring their guarantee of independence.

g) Yugoslavia is the only country which may be attacked by Italy prior to joing the Axis Alliance other than by events.

8) Guidelines for Russia & Japan war:

a) Neither Russia nor Japan may DOW each other until 1st January 1943 and Russia must be at war with Germany.

b) No country other than those agreed for USA in 5e may trade and military units with a Human player until both countries are involved in a war with a common enemy.

9) Guidelines for Russia & Germany war:

a) Russia must accept Ribbontop pact if offered and NAP must be honoured. Trade deals may be offered for any other NAP conditions.

b) Russia may not delcare war on Germany prior to 1st Jan 1942. Any DOW on Turkey, Sweden or Persia voids this restriction. If the MR pact is not offered by Germany Russia may DOW.

9) Trading of military units:

a) No country other than those agreed for USA in 5e may trade and military units with a Human player until both countries are involved in a war with a common enemy.

b) A human controlled France must not trade away any military units.

10) A human controlled France must accept Vichy.

11) No one may influence a Human controlled country without their permission.

12) Spies:

a) No one may attempt to kill any ministers or leaders from a country they are not at war with.

b) No other restrictions apply.

Supply exploits

13) Basing of troops in minor Allies:

a) Apart from the exceptions below no one may base any military units in a minor ally or puppet to save supply costs.

b) If Italy puppets Ethiopia they may leave the units that started there.

c) Owing to Japans small IC base they base a troops in their puppets pre-war as they are large countries and a big garrison force is not unrealistic. They may not however give territory to a puppet pre war for the purpose of basing naval units at a major port.

d) Puppeting of a country pre war is permitted but not to save supply costs. No foreign troops are permitted in such puppeted countries until 3 months before that country enters the war.

e) Russia may not disband its starting army/airforce or navy prior to war with Germany.

Surrounded capital exploit:

a)
A capital may not be diliberately surrounded for the purpose of preventing supplies and convoys from being sent from such a province.

b) If a capital is left vacant it must be occupied if troops are available for such a purpose with regards to other player’s military requirements. If a situation arises that the basing of a large number of foreign troops are also out of supply due to the above situation it needs to be brought to the attention of the country causing such a situation and it will be corrected at the early convenience.

Trading of resources, provinces & blueprints with other countries

15) Resources:

a) Any resource may be traded with any other country.

b) The Allies may not trade for rares in the first month of the game. They may accept any trade offered.

c) No one may trade for any resource in the first 7 days of a new game. From the 7th January 1936 you can trade with anyone you like. You may however accept any deal offered by an AI. This is to allow historical minor Allies to offer resource deals before being pillaged.

16) Blueprints:

a) No restrictions on trading blueprints with Allies or stealing them.

17) Provinces:

a) No one may trade provinces for the purpose of preventing Annexation of a country.

b) Provinces may be bought and sold freely from and country. A human controlled France is prohibited from giving away provinces and puppeting until January 1st 1941.

Military

18) Military access:

a) No one is permitted to allow military access to foreign troops unless they are at war with a common enemy.

b) The USA does receive military access to the UK through events but this may not be used until the USA is at war with Germany.

c)
If you manage to gain Military access to a neutral minor your forces may pass though but may not launch attacks from such a country.

19) Surrounded armies:

a) May not be disbanded when totally surrounded to save manpower. A defending player may negotiate with the attacking player. Negotiations may involve a temporary truce, surrender of some provinces etc. The player may be permitted to disband his troops but only with the agreement of the attacking player.

20) Naval Bugs:

a) Pause the game. Ask the host to save. Discuss with your opponent the situation. If after discussion it’s decided they are bugged and its going to game breaking the attacking player must break off all attacks naval and air. The affected player is to tell the other player when his forces have reached the next province then attacks may commence. A small group of naval units passing in the middle of hostile territory that gets attack and more than likely be destroyed is not sufficient. It must be a game breaking situation.

b) Preventing such bugs can be avoided by the following:
Avoid long distance rebasing through hostile waters. Wait a minimum 4 hours before retreating from a naval battle. When selecting a retreat province avoid selecting a port not in that province. When setting ORG and strength for missions set it to 80-90% rather then the default 50% your units will retreat by themselves.

21) Air units:

a) Air units that have been given a rebase command and keep retreating back to a base about to be captured must be permitted to leave such a province. To keep engaging them to prevent such a rebasing mission is not in the spirit of the game. The damage done to such units is more then enough penalty.

b) This does not apply to normal missions only to those on a base about to be captured by enemy ground units.

22) Province improvements:
a) USA may not build coastal forts until at war.

b) No other country may build forts past level 5 until at war; exceptions are Gibraltar and Malta.

c) All airbases and Naval bases must be built in the province and not placed from build queue. Exception: A level 1 airbase may be placed from the build que.

d) Major ports may only be built in the province itself.

23) Naval combat units with the exception of transports must be deployed when built. They may not be stored in the build queue.

24) No country may change its starting land doctrine other than Axis or Allied minors which may change to any doctrine.

25) All games to be played until a group vote decides otherwise. A tie means the game will continue. Players must abide by the vote if they wish to continue playing in the Aussie group
 
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Those arent the rules SE was referring too :eek:

Maybe Germany should be obliged to offer MR as in the second set if rules that were psoted.

I gather fthis exercise is about merging and whittling down the 2.
 
Ok my thoughts. Land/coastal forts should be kept at maximum 5 regardless unless situations like Gibralta were there are 6 allready present.

I think it is time we move on from Persian being one of the nations that increase/decrease USA war entry by 6 months, after all there are events that put Persia into the UK alliance. I say it should be replaced in the list with Sweden.

Rule 22 b. I think this is going to be an impossible rule to police. I say replace the air base rule with Hiensens airbase rule. Air Bases must be built in the province by right clicking on the province, and selecting it from the province improvements list. It adds more importance to airbases which gives it somewhat of a historical reality. Airbases will become more fought over and contested as you can no longer simply drop 10 airbases from the deployment cue in a newly occupied province near the front line. Will also make the likes of the Pacific and Atlantic campaigns more interesting for those respective powers involved. My thoughts. SE.
 
Axis Comrade said:
Rule 22 b. I think this is going to be an impossible rule to police. I say replace the air base rule with Hiensens airbase rule. Air Bases must be built in the province by right clicking on the province, and selecting it from the province improvements list. It adds more importance to airbases which gives it somewhat of a historical reality. Airbases will become more fought over and contested as you can no longer simply drop 10 airbases from the deployment cue in a newly occupied province near the front line. Will also make the likes of the Pacific and Atlantic campaigns more interesting for those respective powers involved. My thoughts. SE.

Good idea.
 
Axis Comrade said:
Ok my thoughts. Land/coastal forts should be kept at maximum 5 regardless unless situations like Gibralta were there are 6 allready present.

I think it is time we move on from Persian being one of the nations that increase/decrease USA war entry by 6 months, after all there are events that put Persia into the UK alliance. I say it should be replaced in the list with Sweden.

Rule 22 b. I think this is going to be an impossible rule to police. I say replace the air base rule with Hiensens airbase rule. Air Bases must be built in the province by right clicking on the province, and selecting it from the province improvements list. It adds more importance to airbases which gives it somewhat of a historical reality. Airbases will become more fought over and contested as you can no longer simply drop 10 airbases from the deployment cue in a newly occupied province near the front line. Will also make the likes of the Pacific and Atlantic campaigns more interesting for those respective powers involved. My thoughts. SE.

Hiesen rule will not work and how do you know when a player places and airbase. Someone could exploit this unless you look at the save. The USA was able to have fully operational airbases within days. Why should you have to wait 6 months before flying planes from an island that previously had no airbase?

What I am trying to avoid is players just invading anywhere placing an airbase and flying in 100 planes within hours. This makes existing airbases not even worth protecting. With a delay from when you can fly planes to that base it reflects a more realistic approach to use of newly created airbases. This will make existing bases much more valuable as strategic targets. It easy to police. When you place it you just say I have placed and airbase and add 7 days.
 
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Rastius06 said:
Those arent the rules SE was referring too :eek:

Maybe Germany should be obliged to offer MR as in the second set if rules that were psoted.

I gather fthis exercise is about merging and whittling down the 2.

Well I always play Allies but I dont see why this should be a forced option. Germany should be free to offer or not offer the pact. There are penalties for them not offering the pact and Russian can DOW them anytime. If I was the German player I would be offering it eveytime. When I play Russians I always play as if they are going to offer it because a 2 front war in 1939/1940 is not good for the Axis.
 
I tend to agree with se/heinsen on this one (airbases) but dont particularly care which rule if any is used.
 
major ball said:
Hiesen rule will not work and how do you know when a player places and airbase. Someone could exploit this unless you look at the save. The USA was able to have fully operational airbases within days. Why should you have to wait 6 months before flying planes from an island that previously had no airbase?

What I am trying to avoid is players just invading anywhere placing an airbase and flying in 100 planes within hours. This makes existing airbases not even worth protecting. With a delay from when you can fly planes to that base it reflects a more realistic approach to use of newly created airbases. This will make existing bases much more valuable as strategic targets. It easy to police. When you place it you just say I have placed and airbase and add 7 days.


Hiesens airbase rules r good it makes airbases worth fighting for.

Also you WILL know if someone has illegally plopped an airbase as they only build every 150? days. Same for naval bases.

Makes existing naval and air facilities worth fighting for.
 
Mighty G said:
Hiesens airbase rules r good it makes airbases worth fighting for.

Also you WILL know if someone has illegally plopped an airbase as they only build every 150? days. Same for naval bases.

Makes existing naval and air facilities worth fighting for.

Well it will certainly change the game is played. Although I dont think it fair that if you capture a distance province in Australia you have to wait 6 months to fly an airplane from that base. Thats a lot of getting the crapped bombed out of you before doing anything about it.

How about this modification:
Keep rule as is with 7 days requirement but add in any airbase size greater than 1 must be built in that province. This allows a single airbase to be placed as would happen in real life by the Engineers who could always knock up an airfield quickly. This at least allows a player to provide some air support to his forces although limited re org capabilities.

I am happy to add that ports must be built in the province when captured and not placed as it took sometime to uprgade a port to a mjaor port.
 
major ball said:
Well it will certainly change the game is played. Although I dont think it fair that if you capture a distance province in Australia you have to wait 6 months to fly an airplane from that base. Thats a lot of getting the crapped bombed out of you before doing anything about it.

How about this modification:
Keep rule as is with 7 days requirement but add in any airbase size greater than 1 must be built in that province. This allows a single airbase to be placed as would happen in real life by the Engineers who could always knock up an airfield quickly. This at least allows a player to provide some air support to his forces although limited re org capabilities.

I am happy to add that ports must be built in the province when captured and not placed as it took sometime to uprgade a port to a mjaor port.

Im haoppy to play our exisitng rules,

Im just syaing hiesens rules are good and still leave for good play. IF Japs are going to invade australia i would think an airfield and naval base would be the 1st target anyway so it dont really matter.
 
major ball said:
Rule changes have been made in red based on thread discussion.

Everyone please continue to post anything which you feel may be an improvement.

Anything?

SE is only allowed to play gimp nations.
 
major ball said:
Hiesen rule will not work and how do you know when a player places and airbase. Someone could exploit this unless you look at the save. The USA was able to have fully operational airbases within days. Why should you have to wait 6 months before flying planes from an island that previously had no airbase?

What I am trying to avoid is players just invading anywhere placing an airbase and flying in 100 planes within hours. This makes existing airbases not even worth protecting. With a delay from when you can fly planes to that base it reflects a more realistic approach to use of newly created airbases. This will make existing bases much more valuable as strategic targets. It easy to police. When you place it you just say I have placed and airbase and add 7 days.

I like the rule of building airbases greater then lvl 1 in the province itself and not from build ques. Its realistic as the US built minor bases quickly upgrading them over time from newly conquered islands.

Not sure abou the 7 day delay, easily forgotten and hard to police. If you move 100 planes into a level 1 airbase there not going to be very effective for a long time against an enemy with even minimal org.
 
Axis Comrade said:
Ok my thoughts. Land/coastal forts should be kept at maximum 5 regardless unless situations like Gibralta were there are 6 allready present.

I think it is time we move on from Persian being one of the nations that increase/decrease USA war entry by 6 months, after all there are events that put Persia into the UK alliance. I say it should be replaced in the list with Sweden.

Rule 22 b. I think this is going to be an impossible rule to police. I say replace the air base rule with Hiensens airbase rule. Air Bases must be built in the province by right clicking on the province, and selecting it from the province improvements list. It adds more importance to airbases which gives it somewhat of a historical reality. Airbases will become more fought over and contested as you can no longer simply drop 10 airbases from the deployment cue in a newly occupied province near the front line. Will also make the likes of the Pacific and Atlantic campaigns more interesting for those respective powers involved. My thoughts. SE.

I would agree with SE with forts. We should limit all fort consturction to a limit of 3 or 5. I would argue for lvl 3 as if the US player builds level 5 costal forts on all his islands make pacfic war pointless. lvl 3 forst costal/land is sufficent for any defence pre-war.

I would agree with Persia. Persia is covered by events for both the UK and USSR.
 
Rastius06 said:
Those arent the rules SE was referring too :eek:

Maybe Germany should be obliged to offer MR as in the second set if rules that were psoted.

I gather fthis exercise is about merging and whittling down the 2.

The MR pact event chain is a main event in the game and is totaly player choice for which direction they want to go. All events are player choice.

Some thing we need to note in the rules is this.

when the USSR goes for converting findland to communism it does break the NAP. If the USSR choses this option then the NAP is no longer in place as Findland is an histrocial axis ally.

This is not my rule, when the USSR choses that option it breaks the event chain and Germany gets a pop up saying the USSR has broken the NAP from the MR pact. There for an early German DOW is possible in 1940.

You need to put a clause in saying if this option is picked the MR pact is broken.
 
mike8472 said:
The MR pact event chain is a main event in the game and is totaly player choice for which direction they want to go. All events are player choice.

Some thing we need to note in the rules is this.

when the USSR goes for converting findland to communism it does break the NAP. If the USSR choses this option then the NAP is no longer in place as Findland is an histrocial axis ally.

This is not my rule, when the USSR choses that option it breaks the event chain and Germany gets a pop up saying the USSR has broken the NAP from the MR pact. There for an early German DOW is possible in 1940.

You need to put a clause in saying if this option is picked the MR pact is broken.

If russia is stupid enough to do this and not offer germany something in return they deserve to have there door kicked in. Russia still cant DOW by base war entry so it all comes down to player negociations and hard ball diplomacy.

Speaking from experience you and i have had some good deals in regards to Finland in the past in multiple games, none of which affected our game dont think. I still got raped ;)
 
Mighty G said:
If russia is stupid enough to do this and not offer germany something in return they deserve to have there door kicked in. Russia still cant DOW by base war entry so it all comes down to player negociations and hard ball diplomacy.

Speaking from experience you and i have had some good deals in regards to Finland in the past in multiple games, none of which affected our game dont think. I still got raped ;)

You I know this and me and you have never really had an issue when we play Ger vs USSR. But others might and do as seen in your current game.

Just a one line mention would be suffice so people are aware of this.