New Tradition Idea: Auxiliary Extractors

[Faerillis]

While playing with all the changes and testing what's possible with this newest expansion, I believe I came up with an incredible idea for a new Cultural Tradition:

Auxiliary Extractors

The Nomad's new. pricier option for recruiting MaA from their Tributaries is a very fun idea that can lead to incredibly versatile armies. I believe a cultural tradition that allows non-Nomads to access this aspect of Tributaries would go over incredibly well, and could tweaked into a few cultures (like now-dead Roman culture) would be especially fitting.

The Tradition could be tied to Bellicose and Administrative ethos, alongside its obviously very powerful effect of recruiting from other cultures, could drop 5-10% off the maximum amount of money Tributaries contribute, and require something like X number of Fickle leaders, and for a leader to hold X number of settlements.

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

The Nomad's new. pricier option for recruiting MaA from their Tributaries is a very fun idea that can lead to incredibly versatile armies. I believe a cultural tradition that allows non-Nomads to access this aspect of Tributaries would go over incredibly well, and could tweaked into a few cultures (like now-dead Roman culture) would be especially fitting.

Putting aside the issue of "Medieval Roman is still Roman though it is pretty stupid to winter in the mountains of Anatolia without pants", the High Imperial and 3rd century Romans largely still limited the amount of foreign ("barbarian") peoples they recruited into their armies and tried to integrate them into wider Roman culture, which is quite different from the general nomad tendency of not caring about their subjects' religious beliefs unless there was some reason to do so, such as:
1) Yuan Mongols cracking down on White Lotus cults because they were hotbeds for uprisings;
2) Muslim Arabs suppressing conversion to Islam due to getting less tax.
So making tributaries the source of these foreign units for the Romans seems off, since politically speaking it doesn't make sense.

 

[Faerillis]

Putting aside the issue of "Medieval Roman is still Roman though it is pretty stupid to winter in the mountains of Anatolia without pants", the High Imperial and 3rd century Romans largely still limited the amount of foreign ("barbarian") peoples they recruited into their armies and tried to integrate them into wider Roman culture, which is quite different from the general nomad tendency of not caring about their subjects' religious beliefs unless there was some reason to do so, such as:
1) Yuan Mongols cracking down on White Lotus cults because they were hotbeds for uprisings;
2) Muslim Arabs suppressing conversion to Islam due to getting less tax.
So making tributaries the source of these foreign units for the Romans seems off, since politically speaking it doesn't make sense.

Friend.... the Roman culture in-game exists in only two situations:

1. In the history files of characters in the Byzies succession history
OR
2. As an anachronistic revivalist movement trying to capture how they were popularly seen not how they actually were

That's why I brought them up on as an example of a culture that might start with this tradition. In the vast majority of cases where players would get this, you would be seeing it in cultures that rule Kingdoms that keep a large number of Tributaries preserving a more multicultural landscape.

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

In the vast majority of cases where players would get this, you would be seeing it in cultures that rule Kingdoms that keep a large number of Tributaries preserving a more multicultural landscape.

You could revive Roman culture as the Germans?

 

[DreadGrunt]

I’m not necessarily sure if this should be a tradition, but I do know I want it for other government types apart from Nomadic. It’s a bit silly that if I’m playing as an Admin realm and have 100% acceptance of another culture, that I can’t recruit their unique troops to serve in the army.

 

[Faerillis]

I’m not necessarily sure if this should be a tradition, but I do know I want it for other government types apart from Nomadic. It’s a bit silly that if I’m playing as an Admin realm and have 100% acceptance of another culture, that I can’t recruit their unique troops to serve in the army.

I had initially hoped for it to be universal when I heard about this, but I do realize that it would likely be pretty abusable. So I figure a Cultural Tradition giving the option seemed like a pretty good trade-off for something that powerful. I could also see it as an Admin feature, perhaps a Law so it costs something to implement.

 

[Faerillis]

You could revive Roman culture as the Germans?

I mean we're talking about a Cultural Tradition here, where I used Roman as an example of a Culture that might begin with the trait. But also why wouldn't a player be able to do so? I don't see what you're trying to get at.

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

I mean we're talking about a Cultural Tradition here, where I used Roman as an example of a Culture that might begin with the trait. But also why wouldn't a player be able to do so? I don't see what you're trying to get at.

Simply put I don't understand why you are using the Romans as the case example since they neither did nor were seen as a people who oft recruited from tributaries.

 

[WTH666444]

Simply put I don't understand why you are using the Romans as the case example since they neither did nor were seen as a people who oft recruited from tributaries.

Auxilliaries?

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

Auxilliaries?

Auxilla weren't, from the political dimension of the matter, recruited from tributaries. It is arguable if the Romans used this legal concept at all.

 

[WTH666444]

Auxilla weren't, from the political dimension of the matter, recruited from tributaries. It is arguable if the Romans used this legal concept at all.

Semantics. They were recruited from subjects; whether from a vassal, a tributary or anything in between seems secondary.

Also don‘t think Marcus Aurelius was that established over the Iazyges, yet they still sent a couple thousand cavalry to Britain.

 

[Faerillis]

Semantics. They were recruited from subjects; whether from a vassal, a tributary or anything in between seems secondary.

Also don‘t think Marcus Aurelius was that established over the Iazyges, yet they still sent a couple thousand cavalry to Britain.

Worse than semantics, pedantics. And I love a bit of pedantry, if you're making it funny.

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

Semantics. They were recruited from subjects; whether from a vassal, a tributary or anything in between seems secondary.

Also don‘t think Marcus Aurelius was that established over the Iazyges, yet they still sent a couple thousand cavalry to Britain.

The terms of the peace treaty were harsh; the Iazyges were required to provide 8,000 men as auxiliaries and release 100,000 Romans they had taken hostage,[j] and were forbidden from living within ten Roman miles (roughly 9 miles (14 km) of the Danube. ... Of the 8,000 auxiliaries, 5,500 of them were sent to Britannia[159] to serve with the Legio VI Victrix,[160] suggesting that the situation there was serious; it is likely the British tribes, seeing the Romans being preoccupied with war in Germania and Dacia, had decided to rebel.

You know, it would be interesting if CK peace talks ever got this complex. Alas, currently we only have hostages.

 

[TempestM]

that can lead to incredibly versatile armies.

Can it really? I used it only to recruit siege engines which I suppose it was supposed to emulate (mongols hiring Chinese to siege).

The problem is the most efficient way is to focus on one type of MAA like heavy/archer cavalry or heavy infantry and put all bonuses into that (stuff like separate building for limited slots reinforces that). You can do "versatile armies" even without cultures - fill your 5 MAA slots with archer, skirmisher, cavalry, light infantry and pikeman. But people rarely do that, because there's little point. 5 Heavy Cavalry is better.

So this tradition could be used to poach some strong MAA like stealing Cataphracts from Greek (which before you would do with hybridizing or diverging), but versatility is not what I see from it

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

Can it really? I used it only to recruit siege engines which I suppose it was supposed to emulate (mongols hiring Chinese to siege).

The problem is the most efficient way is to focus on one type of MAA like heavy/archer cavalry or heavy infantry and put all bonuses into that (stuff like separate building for limited slots reinforces that). You can do "versatile armies" even without cultures - fill your 5 MAA slots with archer, skirmisher, cavalry, light infantry and pikeman. But people rarely do that, because there's little point. 5 Heavy Cavalry is better.

So this tradition could be used to poach some strong MAA like stealing Cataphracts from Greek (which before you would do with hybridizing or diverging), but versatility is not what I see from it

And this comment ties this thread back into the calls for war rework.

 

[Faerillis]

Can it really? I used it only to recruit siege engines which I suppose it was supposed to emulate (mongols hiring Chinese to siege).

The problem is the most efficient way is to focus on one type of MAA like heavy/archer cavalry or heavy infantry and put all bonuses into that (stuff like separate building for limited slots reinforces that). You can do "versatile armies" even without cultures - fill your 5 MAA slots with archer, skirmisher, cavalry, light infantry and pikeman. But people rarely do that, because there's little point. 5 Heavy Cavalry is better.

So this tradition could be used to poach some strong MAA like stealing Cataphracts from Greek (which before you would do with hybridizing or diverging), but versatility is not what I see from it

Frankly if you're only playing for hyper-optimization than it wouldn't add anything new for you. Not everything should be about hyper-optimization. If that's what brings you joy? Go nuts but creating utterly busted MaAs is not what everyone is shooting for.