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Non-allied vassals

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Second Lieutenant
Mar 22, 2001
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One thing I have noticed is that while you need a royal marriage and alliance to get a vassal, the alliance usually runs out in 10 years while the vassalization doesn't (as long as you keep relations high - I think +140 and over). And oh yeah, the royal marriage disappears as well and you can't get another one with a vassal. Anyway, I am now in a situation where I have a vassal who is NOT part of my military alliance (Lorraine). France declared war on Lorraine and since Lorraine was not part of my alliance I wasn't asked to help. As Lorraine is a minor, it is putting up a spirited fight but will ultimately lose. I didn't want to lose a vassal, so I declared war on France and took a stability hit. My question is this - why? Shouldn't you be able to go to the aid of your vassal even if you are NOT part of the same military alliance? Seems to me that this should be fixed in the next patch.

Also, why are the computer AI's allowed to create alliance of more than 5 members and I can't? I have seem computer military alliance of 7 states, but every time I invite to alliance once there are 4 other members, I get refused.
 
better yet, shouldn't a vassal automatically belong to an alliance that you belong too?

As for the alliance with more than 5 nations, I have done it several time. Just remember that prospects might not join your alliance, not because they don't like you, but because they don't like one of the members.

I had +195 with Savoy but Savoy had -180 with turkey which was part of my alliance. Savoy rejected my offer.

cheers
 
Originally posted by Griffon
better yet, shouldn't a vassal automatically belong to an alliance that you belong too?

As for the alliance with more than 5 nations, I have done it several time. Just remember that prospects might not join your alliance, not because they don't like you, but because they don't like one of the members.

I had +195 with Savoy but Savoy had -180 with turkey which was part of my alliance. Savoy rejected my offer.

cheers
Click to expand...

Thanks! I hadn't thought of that. I'll look at the relations with other members of my alliance.
 
I'm pretty sure that vassals are, for all intents and purposes, part of the country they are vassalized to. I know that when I hover over Naples at the start of the GC it tells me that it is "Spain". And I'm also pretty sure that when I have declared war on a vassal, I always get the big guy coming after me as well. The US manual, though we know it contains some errors, does say that vassals are considered part of the "mother" country.
 
nope! you can declare war on a vassal without having the vassalor come after you. however, more often than none, they will be part of the same alliance.
 
Griffon is right.

It however looks a bit silly when a country is picking on ur vassal u need to take a big stability hit to come and help ur vassal if for some reason it isn't in ur alliance.

They need to be allied for the souvereign to be able to come and help without a stability drop.
 
[marlon brando's voice]I'll make you an offer you can't refuse [/marlon brando's voice]

you become my vassal, give me half your yearly income, and if a country attacks you, I'll make sure their leader sleeps with the fishes. Capice?

Hey Rhony2, you're from Joisey, you understand this right? :D
 
[marlon brando's voice]I'll make you an offer you can't refuse [/marlon brando's voice]

you become my vassal, give me half your yearly income, and if a country attacks you, I'll do shit all. Capiche?

Now that's an offer u can't refuse :D

Well, unless ur also allied to us ;)
 
Originally posted by Griffon
[marlon brando's voice]I'll make you an offer you can't refuse [/marlon brando's voice]

you become my vassal, give me half your yearly income, and if a country attacks you, I'll make sure their leader sleeps with the fishes. Capice?

Hey Rhony2, you're from Joisey, you understand this right? :D
Click to expand...

Yeah, although I'm originally from New Yawk. I know the Sopranos live in Joisey, but when I was growing up, the place where all the dons lived was Staten Island. I have a friend from SI and went to a party for him back in 92. My God, it was like stepping back into the late 70's, early 80's. My Cousin Vinny had just come out and all of my friend's relatives were trying to imitate Joe Pesce.

On another note, on another thread, someone had mentioned that it is possible to have alliances with more than 5 members - is there actually a limit or does it just get really difficult as it is more likely that someone may not like one of your members?

Also on a different thread, someone mentioned the tendency for minors, especially neighbors, to ally with each other rather than a major. Game-wise I guess this makes sense since it's easy for you ally's forces to come in your support. Historically neighbors probably hated each other more than a major and wouldn't have done that. Anyway, this brings up a question. In my GC, Spain and France have been fighting interminable wars against each other. Yet during a moment of peace when Spain was not at war with France, one of Spain's allies in central Europe had a DOW done to him. Spain sent troops to his aid across FRANCE. Huh? Why would France allow that even if it were neutral? Can I do that at any time or just when I am at war?
 
large alliance

Originally posted by rhony2

Also, why are the computer AI's allowed to create alliance of more than 5 members and I can't? I have seem computer military alliance of 7 states, but every time I invite to alliance once there are 4 other members, I get refused.
Click to expand...

I think that the chance of getting another ally depends also on the leader diplomatic skill, and I'm pretty sure a nation is more likely to accept your alliance offer of it is in a sort of trouble, e.g. at -3 stability after religious conversion. I play a game (hard/agressive) as Bohemia and managed to form an initial alliance with Hungary, Venice and Thuringen. After conversion to protestantism I was unable to bring Venice back, but I have picked most of newly converted german states.
Now I have alliance with Hungary, Thuringen, Saxony, Brandenburg, Hanover, Hanseatic League, and Kleves - that is actually 8 states with me.
I have no illusion of forming that alliance again after expiry, so that I have to prolong it by DOW just before expiration date twice, and once my vasal Thuringen made that job for me. I actually needed that wars as Bohemia really needs access to coast and diploannexing is no option, because if you annex one nation you hurt relations with 6 others greatly
 
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