paradox anti-drm? not from my experience.

[TheLoneGunman]

Yes, They have a monopoly, Yes, they benefit from Economies of scale (It can be a good thing for consumers too.) - But this doesn't mean they're consolidating their power trying to take over the PC industry and overprice consumers.

You're putting words in my mouth.

I simply want an alternative that doesn't require me to install client software in order for me to install my games. Steam is specifically against such an arrangement and to go against them would ruin a company financially if their games appeal to the mainstream.

I still have Dwarf Fortress.

 

[DrCelt]

You're putting words in my mouth.

I simply want an alternative that doesn't require me to install client software in order for me to install my games. Steam is specifically against such an arrangement and to go against them would ruin a company financially if their games appeal to the mainstream.

I still have Dwarf Fortress.

I can see where you're coming from, but I don't have much of a problem with steam, personally

 

[Pellaken]

All Paradox really needs is a backup plan. A plan, somewhere, maybe at the bottom of a pile of papers in a box in the basement, but a plan, a real plan, on "What to do if we can no longer continue to use Steam for whatever reason."

 

[luciusETRUR]

All Paradox really needs is a backup plan. A plan, somewhere, maybe at the bottom of a pile of papers in a box in the basement, but a plan, a real plan, on "What to do if we can no longer continue to use Steam for whatever reason."

They are starting a web shop themselves, granted it just sells Steam codes currently, but I seriously doubt that's all it will do.

 

[Will Lucky]

All Paradox really needs is a backup plan. A plan, somewhere, maybe at the bottom of a pile of papers in a box in the basement, but a plan, a real plan, on "What to do if we can no longer continue to use Steam for whatever reason."

Thats a simple answer really.

 

[TheLoneGunman]

They are starting a web shop themselves, granted it just sells Steam codes currently, but I seriously doubt that's all it will do.

But the game will still require the Steam client to install the game, theyre not going to create a non-Steam installer.

 

[Syber]

I like the digital distribution model, I don't even buy boxed games any more, but I don't like needing outside software to install and launch my games, especially software that thinks it knows what I want better than I do. If I needed someone to hold my hand and tell me what I like, I'd be typing this to you on an Apple.

I'm not going to argue with you guys, because it's your company, and you guys get to decide how to make your games and how to best feed your families. I love your games, and I'd love nothing more than to buy every single one of them, but I also need to take a stand and vote with my wallet when needbe. If I'm nothing but part of some fringe anti-Steam minority, so be it, nothing will change for you guys, except maybe you'll be short $5 or so in some future paycheck (if that). But if enough people decide that they don't like the idea that Steam is soon going to be the only place to buy games online (and even if you buy it somewhere else, you still need to install Steam), then maybe things will change.

Either way, you guys are a great developer, and I wish you the best. You've left me with plenty of great games to play, and a community that I like being a part of. So for that, thank you.

+1 Agree on all counts.
I don't want to install Steam (Or any other programs) or have it running to play any games.

 

[Pellaken]

Less than 2% of players (according to stats quoted by the devs) are unwilling to play on Steam.

That means for every person saying "I refuse" there are 50 people saying nothing who accept.

 

[TheLoneGunman]

Less than 2% of players (according to stats quoted by the devs) are unwilling to play on Steam.

That means for every person saying "I refuse" there are 50 people saying nothing who accept.

And I personally have no problem with that. It's their company. I'd prefer if they didn't make their installer Steam-exclusive, but I'm just a member of the lowly 2%.

 

[Malurous]

Come talk to me in 5 years when you can't find a game that doesn't require Steam.

I don't even care about that (ASSUMING that other vendors can still sell games so they still have good offers etc. - if they can't then this industry will be a worse mess than I'm currently willing to imagine) - come talk to me in 30 years when Steam decides to cease operations and you and I are the only people around that still have functional computer games from recent decades. And let's be honest, 30 years is pushing it.

For the record, I am going to buy EU IV. I can't wait for it right now but I have to so I'm sure I can wait another half a year for it after release to get it for ten euros or so. That's the most I can pay, with a clear conscience, for something that a random third party can steal from me whenever they please.

Yes, I know that PDS games so far haven't really required Steam so far. Unless I'm told otherwise, I'm going to assume that's not going to be the case with EU IV "final" (i.e. when all the DLCs are out etc.) since moving between computers is apparently going to require Steam connection.

 

[s1234567890m]

I don't even care about that (ASSUMING that other vendors can still sell games so they still have good offers etc. - if they can't then this industry will be a worse mess than I'm currently willing to imagine) - come talk to me in 30 years when Steam decides to cease operations and you and I are the only people around that still have functional computer games from recent decades. And let's be honest, 30 years is pushing it.

For the record, I am going to buy EU IV. I can't wait for it right now but I have to so I'm sure I can wait another half a year for it after release to get it for ten euros or so. That's the most I can pay, with a clear conscience, for something that a random third party can steal from me whenever they please.

Yes, I know that PDS games so far haven't really required Steam so far. Unless I'm told otherwise, I'm going to assume that's not going to be the case with EU IV "final" (i.e. when all the DLCs are out etc.) since moving between computers is apparently going to require Steam connection.

30 years? 10years and OS incompatibility can ruin a games stability....

 

[Malurous]

30 years? 10years and OS incompatibility can ruin a games stability....

I just finished Ultima I (1981) when I was doing a playthrough of the series less than two years ago, so over thirty years after release, quite successfully.

Besides, if I don't have a compatible computer that's my fault -> acceptable. If I don't have a compatible OS that's my fault -> acceptable. If it's up to my end, I am going to have a compatible box for whatever I need, I'm not in IT anymore but I still know where I can procure what I want, even for free when the gear is far enough past its shelf date.

With stuff like this it's not up to my end. I can have the exact same hardware, software etc. which runs the game, and suddenly it doesn't do so because a random third party decides otherwise. I have zero control. This I deem unacceptable.

 

[s1234567890m]

With stuff like this it's not up to my end. I can have the exact same hardware, software etc. which runs the game, and suddenly it doesn't do so because a random third party decides otherwise. I have zero control. This I deem unacceptable.

...installed on a USB with offline mode enabled problem solved.

Tho why windows is an acceptable 3rd party in this situation... :/

 

[TheLoneGunman]

...installed on a USB with offline mode enabled problem solved.

Tho why windows is an acceptable 3rd party in this situation... :/

Do you really want to use Windows as an example of why people should be defending Steam?

Heck, the funny thing is, in this day and age Apple and Google are considered evil and Microsoft is now some sort of anti-hero.

 

[Malurous]

...installed on a USB with offline mode enabled problem solved.

That is the case with current PDS Steam games, which I have been entirely okay with. If that was still the case with EU IV, if I could just install the game and all that comes with it via Steam, and then do what I please with it, I wouldn't be here. I'd shrug at the fact that I had to install with Steam and forget about it, I have the client installed anyway.

But wonder why I'm making such a clear distinction (if you read my earlier post) between base game and the "final" one (with the eventual DLCs)?

For the main game, yes, you can copy it from the Steam folder and run it wherever you like. Remember that you still need to own the game, so pirating and giving it to your friends is disallowed.

For the DLCs it's actually another matter. You need to start the game once through Steam. After that you can copy the game to any other folder on your computer, and never sign onto Steam again if you so desire. You cannot copy the folder to another computer, though, in that case you need to start the game through Steam once more, to verify that you own all DLCs.

Judging by this, when Steam goes under the DLCs (and considering the DLC policy that CK II has been using, a large part of the game) are going to be absolutely lost, dead, no matter what the user does on his/her end, when the hardware/OS combinations where he/she has the game installed have all perished, and we all know stuff like that isn't eternal. Again, if someone figures that this isn't true then please correct me. I'd absolutely love to be wrong...

I know I'm in the minority, but I'm very leery of purchasing games I can't play for the rest of my life should I choose to do so. If there are limitations to that it's a rotten way to spend my money IMO. I own one game already that's unplayable because the "call home" server isn't around anymore, and when I found out about that - let's just say that I was absolutely livid, uncharacteristically so; I felt that the purchase price had been stolen from me (yes, I know that customer rights for software don't see it that way, but they should in my opinion). If one can love a software company I love Paradox, and I don't want to end up feeling like that about them.

Tho why windows is an acceptable 3rd party in this situation... :/

As far as I'm concerned, because chances are that for some time I'll be able to get a version of Windows I want on a computer I have, and when I can't someone will have come up with something Dosbox-y. If the game install itself can be stored and controlled, I could then run the game in that situation. I see what you mean though - there are more fundamental issues in play - but that's for another day and another thread I believe.

 

[Darkrenown]

Paradox now has "nothing to do" with Paradox games.

Don't be obtuse. If you bought one of our games in a brick and mortar store and they shortchanged you, would you come here and expect us to fix it? Of course not, it's a matter between you and the store.

The two quotes you post are answer to a poster asking about using Steam abroad:

Does anyone here have any experience with using and purchasing games on Steam from outside the country they sign up in? I currently live in Australia, but am planning on moving to the UK for 4-5 years quite soon. I was just signing up to Steam in order to redeem the free EU3 key when I noticed that I would be contracted with Valve US as opposed to Valve EU. From what I've read if you are outside of your home country then things with Steam can get a bit narky.

which is quite clearly a matter of Steam's internal policies and nothing we can give an official answer to here as we are not Steam.

 

[JoxerNL]

Im kinda chuckling here reading the comments claiming steam has a "monopoly".
If anything, the last christmas sale showed it had anything but :
http://isthereanydeal.com/
Try going there, and look at the pricing of various items, it is a nice store to store comparison of games currently on sale.
Also try going to : http://www.reddit.com/r/GameDeals/

What these websites show is that : People who claim steam has a monopoly simply haven't looked around.
While yes, Steam is the easiest one to find, it certainly is not -the- best one out there.

This christmass i bought my games from GamersGate (Settlers 7), GreenManGaming (CK2) and lastly a bunch of games on Amazon. (like the Paradox War Chest)
Again if you look closely at the Amazon Digital Download service you can see they are competing hardcore with steam trying to gain a reputation as a digital platform.
For those who are not in the US : You can simply put in a US McDonalds postal code and buy the games.

 

[DrCelt]

Im kinda chuckling here reading the comments claiming steam has a "monopoly".

Steam don't have a PURE monopoly, which is nigh on impossible in economics unless government granted, but they do have a considerable amount of the market share (monopoly power), allowing it to benefit from the Economics of Scale.

 

[Pellaken]

Don't be obtuse. If you bought one of our games in a brick and mortar store and they shortchanged you, would you come here and expect us to fix it? Of course not, it's a matter between you and the store.

The two quotes you post are answer to a poster asking about using Steam abroad:


which is quite clearly a matter of Steam's internal policies and nothing we can give an official answer to here as we are not Steam.

Not to be offensive, but, if this was me, I'd have links ready. IE if I came and said "I bought your game from Walmart and I got shortchanged" my response would be "From your Profile it seem you are Canadian, go here http://www.walmart.ca/canada-estore/catalog/helpcentercontainer.jsp?show=contactus and here http://www.walmart.ca/canada-estore...ner.jsp?show=shippingandreturns#ReturnsPolicy and they may be able to help you"

With the way Steam is set up it really should not be terribly hard to have a dozen Steam links ready to copypasta whenever someone has an issue.

edit
Rather than just fussin and whinin about it, I decided to get all the links that I'd personally use:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=490
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=512
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=953
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1342

These are the links to the 4 main Paradox games' forums on Steam.

https://support.steampowered.com/

This links directly to the support tab in Steam

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3703-EOHM-7350
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8479-IOFH-0162
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=4578-ERSJ-9092
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3857-INMD-7663

These links to the support for each of the games

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_cat.php?id=3

This is for Steam account issues


and this: https://support.steampowered.com/newticket.php is to make a new support ticket.

 

[TheLoneGunman]

Im kinda chuckling here reading the comments claiming steam has a "monopoly".
If anything, the last christmas sale showed it had anything but :
http://isthereanydeal.com/
Try going there, and look at the pricing of various items, it is a nice store to store comparison of games currently on sale.
Also try going to : http://www.reddit.com/r/GameDeals/

What these websites show is that : People who claim steam has a monopoly simply haven't looked around.
While yes, Steam is the easiest one to find, it certainly is not -the- best one out there.

This christmass i bought my games from GamersGate (Settlers 7), GreenManGaming (CK2) and lastly a bunch of games on Amazon. (like the Paradox War Chest)
Again if you look closely at the Amazon Digital Download service you can see they are competing hardcore with steam trying to gain a reputation as a digital platform.
For those who are not in the US : You can simply put in a US McDonalds postal code and buy the games.

Sure, you can find better deals for some games elsewhere, but when you buy EUIV from Amazon, you're still going to need Steam to install it. If you buy EUIV from Steam, you're not going to need some Amazon client, it's inherently advantageous.