joel said:
Your issue as you state it, is with 'whining' and 'teching'. Whining sounds alot like the choice of players you play with, and well, if you don't enjoy the tech elements of the game, how hard is it to realise that this is your personal preference?
Sorry but this is not just a matter of taste - there are objective issues here. The tech tree in HoI II is simpler than in HoI 1 and the historical year constraint means that there's not so much to think about. Who doesn't start out by researching computers, machine tools and agriculture, for example?
Because the game contains a lot more than just research and builds and because these latter are fairly straightforward, bored players will soon look for something else to do - some aggressive diplomacy, a small war, a trade war or whatever. That's when the whining starts from the players who feel that they are being disadvantaged by this. Guys like you want to tie players hands and force them to play in a circumscribed way with a zillion house rules. If a player still finds something useful to do, you start whining about exploits. You don't seem to get it - this is a game and players are expected to use their brains to devise strategies which help them win.
The only justification you offer for this tiresome and lengthy preamble, is that it allows players to customise and organise their forces as they wish. This seems a negligible benefit for hours of play spent in enforced idleness. Playing as Germany in 39, for example, I have no difficulty rolling over Poland and then France using the historical forces provided. Poland is easy meat and so needs no special effort. The movement of forces from that theatre to the west then provides the opportunity to reorganise. The only details which give me any pause for thought are:
* finding the fortress buster leaders if an assault on the Maginot line is wanted
* restructuring the Luftwaffe to group by type of aircraft
But once one is familiar with the country, even these details take little time. The challenge is to decide what to do after taking France. Developing German strategy from this point still requires one to tech and build as in 36 but in the context of a hot war, not a soporific peace. You can still plan three years ahead (if you want jets or electro-subs, for example) but it's more challenging because there are immediate requirements too.
So, my point is that I expect to be playing a game, not going to a formal dance. You are right that I'm belabouring the point but this is a forum and that's what we are here for. By discussing the matter in detail, we may understand each other and the game better.
A further aspect is that you perhaps take a long term view - that you expect to be playing HoI II with your established group for the next few years. But a concern that I have is that, for the V-Net crowd, this is a happy time - the game has just appeared and so there's a lot more activity there than there will be in future. Because many such players will move on when there's another new game to divert them, I reckon that there's only 3 months or so in which to enjoy the opportunity of playing with them. This time is therefore precious and shouldn't be wasted on scenarios which, by their nature, are likely to be unsatisfactory. Because the mayfly type of player is comparatively naive, they need to be given guidance as to what works and what doesn't. The more we experienced players can tell them what to expect, the better. The ones who want your style of 36 campaign will understand that they need to hook up with a well-organised and like-minded group. The ones who seek more instant gratification may understand better that they shouldn't expect that style of play in a pickup game.
Andrew
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