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Producing heirs and educating them well

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Henri II Valois
Mar 19, 2002
2.046
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www.europa-universalis.com
After reading sergeis excellent report in the developer diary I have many questions for discussion on heirs!

I have missed out on some of these reports so maybe you guys can either fill me in or help me speculate.

You can choose education for your heirs. This must mean you can educate them differently somehow. What might the effects of doing this be? Maybe each ruler has the old EU2 concents of military/diplomacy/administration that can be influenced by this?

Also - virility. Being able to have heirs is important. Assuming there is no control over how often your dynasty members are out and having children and such this can be a blessing and a danger. I think some of your more virile folks may end up with illegitimate heirs and maybe just a bit of family scandal. ;)

Being barely able to have children is worse, as this can be life threatening to the dynasty. Especially if after years of effort you produce a daughter in lands where salic law is being applied. :eek:

Lastly, what kinds of education can you give? What ought you do with rowdy heirs that become too much trouble? Is your heir selectable or is it first born?

And where does poison factor into the whole equation of unwanted heirs? ;)
 
Hmmm, feudal assassinations. I wonder how readily available poisoning heirs and even kings will be. And if you can trace the murder back to who paid to have it done...or even frame murders? Ooooh, wouldn't that be fantastic if you could start wars through deceitful plots? :D
 
Originally posted by PriestOfDiscord
Hmmm, feudal assassinations. I wonder how readily available poisoning heirs and even kings will be. And if you can trace the murder back to who paid to have it done...or even frame murders? Ooooh, wouldn't that be fantastic if you could start wars through deceitful plots? :D
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IMO it wasn't that uncommon it shouldn't be put in. posioning shouldn't be the only way though. An 'accidental' drowning while out at sea, a 'suicidal' jump off the balcony or simply the old arrow in the chest.
 
You guys should read 'A Song of Ice and Fire' of George R.R. Martin. You'll find some good ideas in there...;) :)
 
Originally posted by Wasa
Fiction?..What time period?..A book I haven´t read or heard of..;)
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Try this link

I'm sure you also can find some reviews on Amazon or something.
 
To get back the on topic (;)) of educating heirs: It was not uncommn for the oldest son(s) to receive education and training in all the aspects of running the kingdom to prepare them on what was to come. Sometime though, by the strike of bad fate, the "educated" heir(s) would die before they could assume power, leaving more unsuited heirs to the throne.

Since I just read Norwich' book on Norman Sicily one example strike me:

Roger II of Sicily had five sons: Roger, Tancred, Alfonso, William and Henry.

Roger, the oldest, was early created Duke of Apulia while Tancred, the second, became Prince of Taranto and Bari. The problem arose when all the three oldest sons (Roger, Tancred and Alfonso) pre-deceased their father, leaving the fourth son William the throne. He had received little tutoring in the inns and outs of administring the kingdom and (truth to be said) showed little enthusiasm for it after his accession, leaving most of the work to his chief advicors.
 
I'd guess that it isn't possible to select how many heirs to have, it'd probably be a random thing (dependant on the character's stats). However, I would also guess that it should be an option to limit the number of heirs or somesuch, though I doubt it would be entirely effective. The personal life of the monarch would make for an unpredictable set of events though - which would augment hte dynastic uncertainties.
 
Infant mortality is a factor as well, I suppose. You simply had to keep at it when reproducing as your children died like flies. So did wives, really. :D
 
Originally posted by Shadowstrike
I'd guess that it isn't possible to select how many heirs to have, it'd probably be a random thing (dependant on the character's stats). However, I would also guess that it should be an option to limit the number of heirs or somesuch, though I doubt it would be entirely effective. The personal life of the monarch would make for an unpredictable set of events though - which would augment hte dynastic uncertainties.
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I think the number of offspring a character produces will be decided from various traits and some randomization. It the newborn survive their infancy would also be a question carrying great uncertainity.

Then, if you have say three sons, all healthy and in their early youth. How would you educate them? I can imagine a system like this:
- You can give them military training by assigning them to command parts of the army when on campaign. This will, given the right set of traits with the young one, increase his military abilities. It will also increase his chance of being killed...
- You can give them administrative training by granting them a fief. Again: Given the right set of traits it could increase his abilities in that area. It will also give a chance of commanding the army, since he would be the commander from that fief if called up.
- What more? Education in langages, religious and philosophical matters would be an option. This would be particularly suited for a career in the Church (hence, your younger sons), but should also help making a benevolent wise ruler.

Each of these must be so that you cannot train a character fully in all categories - you'll have to make important choices!

How does that sound? Suggestions for other topics of training?
 
Originally posted by Havard
...and even kings too... ;)
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Bah infant mortality was the predominant factor here. Sure people died like flies by modern standards but we are talking about queens who sometimes gave birth to droves of children and not one reached adult age. And this was people who was given the highest standards of care in those days. Although I suppose that could have something to do with it.:D
 
Originally posted by Havard
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Then, if you have say three sons, all healthy and in their early youth. How would you educate them?
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That´s easy, one you would give the traditional heir in training education. The second one pretty much the same to be kept in reserve. Although if the first one manages to avoid being killed you can always use this one to invade other nations or barbarians later on. The last one goes to the church.:)
 
Interesting aspect: The oldest son reaches maturity just like planned, but the second oldest son - who has received education and military training as well - is ambitious and has his brother murdered.

Logic: Don't educate too many of your offspring else they might get ambitious
 
Originally posted by Karl Martell
Interesting aspect: The oldest son reaches maturity just like planned, but the second oldest son - who has received education and military training as well - is ambitious and has his brother murdered.

Logic: Don't educate too many of your offspring else they might get ambitious
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Correct but if you only educate one and he dies you are stuck with one stupid arse for a long time.
 
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