Raiding for faith of the seven

[pbr7994]

I was just curious as to why raiding can't be done as a faith of the seven faithful. I think that raiding goes very well with the lore of the books given that one of the main things happening in the beginning of the war of five kings is westerlands men going raiding through the riverlands under Clegane...

given the mega war system they can only raid when at war anyway which again seems to go with the lore...
and they most lords can't go raiding across the sea as very few lords have the ships to carry an army across the sea.

just curious as to what other peoples opinions are?

 

[Rationalsanity]

For practical reasons, you don't want a massive number of realms raiding the East all the damn time. Even just during wartime would be too much.

 

[SBerger]

When I play as England or France, I near rage quit over the absurd amount of Norse raiders attacking my shores, only to get back on their boats a mere day before my armies arrive in the county. Given the size of Westeros and the size of Scandinavia, can you imagine how annoying raiders from Westeros would be?? And besides, Tywin ordered Ser Gregor to raid the Riverlands in hopes of luring Ned out to be captured and used as a bargaining chip for Tyrion. The other times we hear of raiding were only done as a scorched earth policy, which is not the raid mechanic Crusader Kings 2 has, which is for quick cash. Also, given the size of Westerosi armies in this mod, soldiers raised for raids may as well be armies organized for invasions.
The only ones who really raided on a large scale were the Ironborn, with the Dornish raiding The Reach from time to time. Raiding just doesn't seem to fit the majority cultures and religions of Westeros.

 

[Furion Matsuya]

Maybe the devs could create some small event chains for armies during warfare to simulate raiding and looting the countryside, nothing to major but enough that you don't need to imagine it while role playing.

eg marching in or sieging a rich province/county could occasionally cause an event where you chose to loot a sept for gold but a piety hit or farms for gold/supplies and get a prestige hit or both for a more sevare hit to both. People like Clegane or cruel or greedy characters or whatever (leave that up to the devs) could choose to terrorise the small folk which is minor scorched earth tactics ala Clegane which would not give much gold or anything but hits provinces with a nasty modifer to supplies and levies etc and might damage relations between it's lord and their liege for failing to protect them etc.

 

[mrmastro]

That what is happening in CoK is just a normal war, not raiding and taking wealth actions.

 

[Mighty-Fisch]

only to get back on their boats a mere day before my armies arrive in the county.

But that's the whole point of lightly armed raiders. It wouldn't really do to have your guys stick around to get slaughtered by an actual army.

 

[Rationalsanity]

But that's the whole point of lightly armed raiders. It wouldn't really do to have your guys stick around to get slaughtered by an actual army.

That makes sense if it's a few hundred bandits, but raiders in CK2 are usually thousands strong armies that target major population centers and shouldn't be moving that fast. Thank the devs' Viking fetish for the nonsensical way raiding works.

 

[Azaghal1502]

Well, thats not unrealistic. The Vikings sailed in fleets and attacked whole regions. Sometimes they even sieged major cities like paris 885 with hundreds of ships and (according to ancient sources) 30000 Men, propaly closer to 10000-15000 but still a giant army for the times.

Normally when arraving the fleets split up, and each ship or group of ships attacks a village or monestary. But in CK2 the regions are to big to have a representation for each little village, so it's fine to have a few thousand man attack a region in game.

Greetings

 

[Rationalsanity]

Well, thats not unrealistic. The Vikings sailed in fleets and attacked whole regions. Sometimes they even sieged major cities like paris 885 with hundreds of ships and (according to ancient sources) 30000 Men, propaly closer to 10000-15000 but still a giant army for the times.

Normally when arraving the fleets split up, and each ship or group of ships attacks a village or monestary. But in CK2 the regions are to big to have a representation for each little village, so it's fine to have a few thousand man attack a region in game.

Greetings

Not every raid was that big, those raids were the exception.

 

[SBerger]

Well, thats not unrealistic. The Vikings sailed in fleets and attacked whole regions. Sometimes they even sieged major cities like paris 885 with hundreds of ships and (according to ancient sources) 30000 Men, propaly closer to 10000-15000 but still a giant army for the times.

Normally when arraving the fleets split up, and each ship or group of ships attacks a village or monestary. But in CK2 the regions are to big to have a representation for each little village, so it's fine to have a few thousand man attack a region in game.

Greetings

Well be to fair, Crusader Kings 2 is only realistic until the next day of the game. The only historic parts of the game are the starting dates and who controls what on that date. Game of Thrones is entirely fiction, it's a fanfic of the War of the Roses, of English history. Yeah, some Norseman marched 30 000 Norseman to Paris, and several years later, they invaded England. And sure, there may have been primarily raiding as forms of warfare in Westeros, maybe when the First Men dominated the continent and Weirwood tress dotted the countryside. However, all the evidence we have is based in the book, and that evidence suggests Westrosi now don't raid to war, they invade in vast numbers.

 

[Azaghal1502]

However, all the evidence we have is based in the book, and that evidence suggests Westrosi now don't raid to war, they invade in vast numbers.

Hmm as far as i remember the Troops of the westerlands do primarily raiding in the riverlands and avoid the Castles, at least at the start of the war.
(Tickler?)
The Troops of the north do raiding as well, and bring cattle and supplies on the northern way out of the westerlands.
So, imo the raiding might be called scavanging, but it's not really different to the thing the Ironmen do, except the ironborn people is more efficient.

Additionally there was raiding between the Stormlands, the Reach and Dorne before the Times of Daeron the Good.

Greetings.

 

[SBerger]

Okay, I admit defeat, but I'm still adamant that Crusader Kings 2 raiding system is utterly incompatible with what Martin writes on Westorsi raiding. If there was a system that adds resources, I'd love to see a resource raiding mechanic that adds new things to do in a war other than sieges and battles. It would also be neat to see a plunder mechanic like what happens when raiders take a holding, but when your not raiding. Perhaps when you take a holding, you'll have an option to plunder or capture. Think of it like Darry when the Lannister forces destroyed it.

EDIT: Had some new thoughts. If there was a plunder option, the one who plunders the holding get cash, captives, and maybe some buildings in the holding get destroyed if there are some that can. i.e. Plunder Darry, and the Barracks III downgrades to a Barracks II.

 

[pbr7994]

So it seems that a lot of people disagree but from what I gather it seems less about the westerosi raiding in the lore as it is about balance.
I'm considering reducing the gold cost of the farm buildings to between 10 and 50 gold and adding an on_siege event that will destroy them (if the sieger is worth, dishonorable, tyrant, greedy, ruthless or is bankrupt) and grant the sieger gold scaled to how large the farm is...
Good idea?

 

[SBerger]

I like the idea of destroying farms during sieges given that in this historical time period of European Medieval years, there were no such thing as a supply route for armies (Mostly, e.g. Mace Tyrell's siege of the dinner table during his siege of Storm's End), they had to live off the land during expeditions. My own historical time of interest the First Crusade saw many instances during sieges when the Crusaders were driven to near starvation because they stripped the countryside bare (Antioch and Jerusalem).
It seems reasonable to have siege commanders destroy farms in a holding during a siege to feed their armies. However, this brings up another issue that may complicate the game some more. Given that armies only survived in territories via how much resources they could plunder, I kind of have to bring up the idea of a county debuff of plundered or sacked when armies are stationed there for prolonged periods of time. It might add huge tactical maneuvers to the players if the supply amount of a county decreased when armies are stationed there during sieges, and if they are standing in friendly counties random events can pop up of looting of farms or random soldiers being accused of murdering or raping locals where if you decide to punish, it'll decrease morale or a prestige loss if you decide to do nothing.

 

[Furion Matsuya]

I like the idea of destroying farms during sieges given that in this historical time period of European Medieval years, there were no such thing as a supply route for armies (Mostly, e.g. Mace Tyrell's siege of the dinner table during his siege of Storm's End), they had to live off the land during expeditions. My own historical time of interest the First Crusade saw many instances during sieges when the Crusaders were driven to near starvation because they stripped the countryside bare (Antioch and Jerusalem).
It seems reasonable to have siege commanders destroy farms in a holding during a siege to feed their armies. However, this brings up another issue that may complicate the game some more. Given that armies only survived in territories via how much resources they could plunder, I kind of have to bring up the idea of a county debuff of plundered or sacked when armies are stationed there for prolonged periods of time. It might add huge tactical maneuvers to the players if the supply amount of a county decreased when armies are stationed there during sieges, and if they are standing in friendly counties random events can pop up of looting of farms or random soldiers being accused of murdering or raping locals where if you decide to punish, it'll decrease morale or a prestige loss if you decide to do nothing.

Thats pretty much what I say saying earlier but in much better wording