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Random EU2 gameplay freeze...can anyone help

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Following word of mouth recommendations I picked up EU2, but I'm having problems. At seemingly random intervals the game will freeze midplay on singleplayer games, I've tried Grand Campaign and Fantasia. No mouse movement or game animations, and the music and sound will either repeat the last noise or make a quiet high-pitched whine. I use a laser scanning mouse and occasionally when it locks the scanning laser light will switch off.
It's a total lockup requiring a reset. Sometimes I can get a couple of hours play, other times it happens with minutes.

The game was the Ubisoft UK version V1.04 that I later patched to 1.07

My specs
AMD Athlon @ 1200
256 Ram
Hercules 4500 Kryo 2, Graphics driver 16.0051 generic, 16.0055 Hercules specific
Soundblaster Live
KT7 Motherboard (KT133 chipset)
USB Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer
Win 98 4.10 build 1998
Well over 4 GB free drive space
Direct X 9.0a
DXDiag said no problems.
The only program running in the background is the intellimouse control software 'intellipoint' v3.1


Following advice elsewhere here, I've tried the following
Playing with No Music or Sound
Set desktop to same colours and screen res as game (800x600 16 bit)
Disable intro
Uninstall game and reinstall with /without Patch 1.07
Uninstall Direct X and reinstall
Uninstall graphics drivers (Power VR generic) and reinstall Hercules Kyro specific.
Defrag and general system clean up such as reg cleaning and pruning the startup list with the system config utility to get rid of stuff like invisible background programs etc
Virus Checking
Tried other mouse (same type though)
SiSoft Sandra 2001se Burn-in test (to check my hardware for faults)

I'm unwilling to uninstall and reinstall windows. Not all of us have a CD burner so it will be a real pain to back up data and relocate useful utils because I can't remember where I got them from. :rolleyes:

Here's a quirk that may be relevant. Several months back I installed quite an old Win95 game…magic the gathering. I had a similar problem with that and just put it down to the old game. However I haven't had this problem with other games and recently played Icewind Dale 2 for well over 100 hours having only 2 random crashes in all that time. I suspect it's probably a game/system clash rather than specific system problem.

If it will be genuinely useful I can post a copy of the DXDiag report but it's quite hefty so I won't bother at this time, I'm kind of hoping someone will say it's just a setting on my graphics card or something like that. ;) Hey it fixed Medieval Total War :p

Thanks
 
try deleting the avi folder in your game folder
 
Still having problems.

One time it froze on the select game type screen (where you can pick Grand Campaign etc)

since then I've tried
Plugging my mouse into the PS2 Port on the offchance it was a USB problem
Removing a virtual SCSI driver I still had in my Device manager setup.

I've noticed it also seems to freeze more often as the game year progresses. The furthest I've gotten is 1440s, which is nowhere really. At this point freezes occur more or less yearly. When I first start it's usually okay until the mid 1420s at which point the freezes begin.
 
I've no solid idea what your problem is, althought I'd bet it was a driver of some sort. As it gets worse as the game gets on (and so gets more complex) it could also be a system resource shortfall.

If at all possible I'd ditch win98 and go for win2000, which at least makes decent use of the memory over 64mb; as it is that memory is virtually wasted for you. If you do that I'd also go up to at least 512mb of memory. I suspect this game, and a lot of others, will work a lot better. Win2000 also has better USB support, and for other recent hardware too.
 
AMD Athlon + VIA chipset + complete lockup = infinite loop.

Had to fight this problem myself early this year. It is caused by a faulty AGP driver from VIA.

Uninstall the VIA 4in1 driver set completely, and use the Microsoft stock IDE drivers and AGP drivers. Then the lockups should no longer happen.

A brief explanation maybe in order about what is going on:

The AGP portion of the northbridge maintains a command/data queue for pending transactions, which works both ways. AGP transactions are always 64 bits. The problem starts when the software initiates a transfer starting on an odd DWORD boundary. The transaction must be completed in two cycles instead of one.

When, after the first cycle is complete but before the second cycle starts, the AGP card itself also request a transfer transaction, and this transaction for some reason requires the one from the CPU to be completed first, both transactions deadlock each other.

The interrupted transaction can no longer complete, as the video card will reject it, pending completion of it's own transaction. The AGP card's transaction cannot complete either, as it requires completion of the one initiated from the CPU. Because of the bouncing of the second part of the split CPU transaction, Microsoft has named this problem 'infinite loop'. Because of the lockout in the northbridge of the chipset, the processor is permanently locked out of all memory access, and thus cannot execute any other instructions, nor can it respond to interrupts. This will cause a soundcard to repeat it's last loaded sound fragment ad infinitum, for example.

Intel has documented this particular sitiuation in it's official AGP specification, with an explicit warning to software/driver developers to make sure the above described situation is to be avoided at all times, as it will completely freeze the system. It can be avoided completely by assuring that software drivers initiate memory transfers on even DWORD boundaries only, as the AGP transaction will then only need one uninterruptable cycle and thus avoids the deadlock situation. Unfortunately, the VIA programmers haven't made sure their drivers follow this advice.

Jan Peter
 
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Okay, sorry for the delay, MrT is away for awhile.

JPD is most likely correct, I would suggest following his advice.
 
Let us know.
 
No luck. To be honest I'm not sure I successfully disabled the via4in1s. I had to use the via4in1 installer to actually uninstall them since there was no other way it seemed, I then used a regedit tool to delete the 4in1 key. It still locks, though I had a good run of 10years for a while there. If it wasn't for the fact that other stuff works for hours I'd suspect I had a hardware problem. Does EU2 address various pieces of hardware in an uncommon way that could be aggravating a problem my system has.
 
I would suggest Pming jpd directly, since he has recently performed the same procedure.

If he cannot help let us know.
 
In Win98, you can use the F8 key upon boot to force the boot menu. Choose option 'command prompt only'. Then goto the Windows\system directory and remove viagart.vxd and vatapi.vxd.

Now goto the Windows\Inf directory and remove viagart.inf and viamach.inf.

If any of these files is already gone, so much the better.

Now type 'WIN' to continue booting windows. You maybe getting errors regarding missing files. Ignore them. Let windows detect your 'new ' chipset hardware, and let it install it's default drivers. Once this is done, you are sure that the VIA 4in1 sh*t is completely removed.

To double check, goto control panel, choose system, then device manager. Check under system devices. You should have, amongst others, a PCI bus, PCI standard CPU host bridge, PCI standard ISA bridge, PCI standard PCI to PCI bridge. There should no longer be a reference to any VIA device, nor a reference to AGP.

Note: The above procedure is the one I used to get rid of those nasty VIA drivers, and after I had removed them this way, I haven't had a single infinite look lockup since. Before that, my system froze almost constantly. NeverWinter nights locked up after 15 minutes or so, Civ3 within 5 minutes, 3DMark 2001 couldn't get past the second benchmark, and the installer of Soldier of Fortune 2 would freeze at around 40% installed.

The most annoying fact about this particular problem is that it is highly timing dependant. I can have lockups in totally different programs than you. For me, EU2 never gave me lockups, but the above mentioned programs did. Even varying RAM timing parameters or tweeking PCI bus latency settings can completely change the picture.

Jan Peter
 
Thanks. I tried it but it still locks. I suspect my system has developed a fault in the past couple of months or so. It was rock stable for over a year but this freeze problem is spreading. Today I ran a burn-in test for a few hours and it was fine, but when I quit the test and continued with to windows it froze after a few seconds. Yesterday I also played the Freelancer demo for 3 hours with no problem, but again when I dopped back to windows it froze in seconds. Yet I can run regular windows stuff like browsers, and Word for hours without a problem. Bizzare! I may have to start saving my money because I cannot afford to buy a new OS or anything at this time.
 
"The only program running in the background is the intellimouse control software 'intellipoint' v3.1"

Try taking this out, You really don't need it.
 
Originally posted by Ben Wright
Thanks. I tried it but it still locks. I suspect my system has developed a fault in the past couple of months or so. It was rock stable for over a year but this freeze problem is spreading. Today I ran a burn-in test for a few hours and it was fine, but when I quit the test and continued with to windows it froze after a few seconds. Yesterday I also played the Freelancer demo for 3 hours with no problem, but again when I dopped back to windows it froze in seconds. Yet I can run regular windows stuff like browsers, and Word for hours without a problem. Bizzare! I may have to start saving my money because I cannot afford to buy a new OS or anything at this time.
Click to expand...
When the freeze is caused by the infinite loop problem, it will only occur if you are utilising the AGP bus itself. When you run win98 desktop, including stuff like office apps, you are merely accessing the video card's frame buffer in 2D mode. The AGP bus itself is only needed for intensive 3D stuff. It is therefore perfectly normal that you will not experience any freezes in the desktop or with other 2D apps.

Since you indicate that you experience lockups, even if the VIA drivers are competely gone, we have to start digging a little deeper. What you should check are the voltage levels, and especially the actual levels for the 3.3 and 5 volt rails. When you stress a video card in 3D, it's power consumtion starts to rise. If those levels are (slightly) below the norm, a fully active 3D card can cause them to drop (momentarily) below the threshold. This too can be the cause of a system freeze, because it too can cause the AGP video card to stop responding to the CPU's commands.

If these levels are indeed too low, it can indicate two things. One: you power supply unit is no longer upto the task, and you need a new (heavier) unit. Two: the power regulators on you motherboards are starting to fail. If that it the case, you either need to replace them (not an easy task to accomplish), or you need to replace the motherbord.

If these levels are correct, we have to dig even deeper.

Jan Peter
 
Fixed it!!!:D

Like JPD suggested it was voltage levels. Back when I built the PC I set the levels marginally below normal in order to reduce heat build up. I'd had no problems for two years so I half-forget I'd done it. Since I'd already checked memory and cpu and the like for several hours with out problemsI realised that it could be a symptom of a power problem. I set levels to default and it's been working fine for 8 hours+. Even the loading midgame CTD have stopped!! It seems my PSU isn't what it was, the fan got dust in it a while back and makes a lot of noise. I guess it must be drawing more power to compensate or something.

Still, it's strange that EU2 suffered from it to such an extent and 3D heavy stuff like Unreal 2 had no problems...you'd think it would be the other way.


Anyways, thanks to everyone who offered help, especially to JPD.:)
 
Always great to get people up and running again!

This demonstrates the dificulty of remote diagnosing of systems.

I would never have guessed you had turned down the voltage. Good catch jpd!
 
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