Reducing Fleet Limits

[beckermt]

Hi,

considering a way to reduce fleet sizes. Adjusting the size multiplier of the 4 base ship types makes them take double fleet cap, but also breaks their graphics when you're inspecting them. It also doesn't really address the fact that fleets are relatively cheap (early game).

I've found base_fleet_size in the defines.lua, but I haven't found where fleet cap increases from space stations are calculated. Any help?

A second approach would be to double maintenance while keeping fleet caps similar (although, I do feel like fleet caps are extremely high in the midgame). Is maintenance just a factor of total ship (base + modules, ignoring prod discounts) production cost? If so, I would assume this factor is in the defines somewhere. Any ideas?

I think in the end, I would like to both half the fleet caps AND double maintenance...

 

[RadioactiveHellion]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean to do, but if you're trying to reduce the navy fleet limit you can reduce the amount of capacity either spaceports or population gives in the defines file under:

NAVY_SIZE_BASE = base capacity added
NAVY_SIZE_POP_MULT = capacity from population (float)
NAVY_SIZE_SPACEPORT_BASE = capacity added on building a spaceport
NAVY_SIZE_SPACEPORT_MULT = added capacity per level of spaceport

 

[beckermt]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean to do, but if you're trying to reduce the navy fleet limit you can reduce the amount of capacity either spaceports or population gives in the defines file under:

NAVY_SIZE_BASE = base capacity added
NAVY_SIZE_POP_MULT = capacity from population (float)
NAVY_SIZE_SPACEPORT_BASE = capacity added on building a spaceport
NAVY_SIZE_SPACEPORT_MULT = added capacity per level of spaceport

Navy_size_base, eh? I thought it was fleet_size_base... maybe I'm misremembering.
Anyway, your instinct about what I wanted to do was right. I'll look through the defines again for those things. I hope I don't find both Fleet_ and Navy_Size_Base! :-D

Any clue where the maintenance calculations are?

 

[beckermt]

Aha!
BASE_FLEET_SIZE = 10, -- Number of ships allowed in a fleet at game start

is unused code, afaict, when they were originally considering max fleet sizes. I misread it in my haste. More fool I.

 

[Anthropoid]

I've played a good bit with

NAVY_SIZE_MAX   = 2000,    -- Max value of Naval Capacity  Default 1000

     NAVY_SIZE_BASE                      = 3,   -- Base value of Naval Capacity  Default 5
     NAVY_SIZE_POP_MULT                   = 0.55,   -- Mult value of Naval Capaicty for each Pop  Default 0.25
     NAVY_SIZE_SPACEPORT_BASE               = 3,   -- Base value of Naval Capacity for each spaceport  Default 5
     NAVY_SIZE_SPACEPORT_MULT               = 2,   -- Mult value of Naval Capacity for each spaceport level ( NAVY_SIZE_BASE + Level * NAVY_SIZE_MULT )  Default 1
     STARTING_WEAPON_TECHS = {

in 00_defines.lua, and that was fun. Going to try it with NAVY_SIZE_MAX = 4000 too, see how that goes.

Quite a pucker factor when the "Superior" computer-opponent faction on the other side of the galaxy who was part of the alliance that had war decced me for being a purging terrorist showed up with half-dozen or more 75k fleets!

Sounds like you were interested in the size of actual fleets though, not the cap on the entire navy?

 

[beckermt]

I've played a good bit with

NAVY_SIZE_MAX   = 2000,    -- Max value of Naval Capacity  Default 1000

     NAVY_SIZE_BASE                      = 3,   -- Base value of Naval Capacity  Default 5
     NAVY_SIZE_POP_MULT                   = 0.55,   -- Mult value of Naval Capaicty for each Pop  Default 0.25
     NAVY_SIZE_SPACEPORT_BASE               = 3,   -- Base value of Naval Capacity for each spaceport  Default 5
     NAVY_SIZE_SPACEPORT_MULT               = 2,   -- Mult value of Naval Capacity for each spaceport level ( NAVY_SIZE_BASE + Level * NAVY_SIZE_MULT )  Default 1
     STARTING_WEAPON_TECHS = {

in 00_defines.lua, and that was fun. Going to try it with NAVY_SIZE_MAX = 4000 too, see how that goes.

Quite a pucker factor when the "Superior" computer-opponent faction on the other side of the galaxy who was part of the alliance that had war decced me for being a purging terrorist showed up with half-dozen or more 75k fleets!

Sounds like you were interested in the size of actual fleets though, not the cap on the entire navy?

There is no fleet size cap mechanic at the moment. I've double maintenance costs and the halved navy cap to see how that plays. It should make each ship more important, but... maybe I need to double their cost (and return the maintenance to normal proportions). Otherwise, the key to victory will be spamming ship production. Actually a devaluation of individual ships, since they're cheap compared to maintenance...

 

[Iyur]

There are two modifiers reletaed to the country scope:

navy_size_add
navy_size_mult

You can add some conditions and apply them in different cases.

 

[jimbobrosso]

what we need is a limit on how many ships you can have per fleet not how many ships we can have. like i'd be happy with a fleet limit of 100 per fleet.

 

[Iyur]

Ok, sorry. Now I've got it. So, maybe something like this may be a way:
It won't limit the fleet size, but will reduce it power.

fleet_event = {
    id = mod_fleet.100
    title = mod_fleet.100.name

    # check the unflugged fleets with more than 15 ships
    trigger = {
        NOT = { has_fleet_flag = "fleet_overnumbered" }
        count_ships = {
            limit = { is_ship_class = shipclass_military }
            count > 15
        }
    }

    immediate = {
        set_fleet_flag = "fleet_overnumbered"
        add_modifier = {
            modifier = "overnumbered_fleet_penalties"
            days = -1
        }
    }
}

 

[beckermt]

To clarify, what I originally wanted to do (and have succeded at) is to reduce total Navy Capacity and increase maintenance costs.

Ok, sorry. Now I've got it. So, maybe something like this may be a way:
It won't limit the fleet size, but will reduce it power.

fleet_event = {
    id = mod_fleet.100
    title = mod_fleet.100.name

    # check the unflugged fleets with more than 15 ships
    trigger = {
        NOT = { has_fleet_flag = "fleet_overnumbered" }
        count_ships = {
            limit = { is_ship_class = shipclass_military }
            count > 15
        }
    }

    immediate = {
        set_fleet_flag = "fleet_overnumbered"
        add_modifier = {
            modifier = "overnumbered_fleet_penalties"
            days = -1
        }
    }
}

Off-topic: An interesting idea. I actually was toying with the idea that fleets couldn't exist without an admiral, but an event feels a little clunky. I wonder if there's a different way to set a permanent flag on fleets that's removed if they're small or have an admiral. Of course, if the limit is too high, then someone will just build 10 fleets of the smallest size and avoid needing admirals...

I can see why they removed this feature, it's a bit unwieldy.

I think upping maintenance and cost of ships, increasing the maintenance "bonus" when docked, and reducing total ships could significantly change the war meta. It would perhaps allow a war of economies. Undocking big fleets would be potentially very expensive, so small raiding fleets on enemy energy production would be highly effective...

Exciting stuff.

 

[Anthropoid]

Heh, you want smaller fleets and I want more fleets/ships! That is the beauty of a moddable game!

Not to say I disagree with the sentiment, doom stacks are thorny. But just not something I think is worth worrying about so early after release.

 

[beckermt]

Heh, you want smaller fleets and I want more fleets/ships! That is the beauty of a moddable game!

Not to say I disagree with the sentiment, doom stacks are thorny. But just not something I think is worth worrying about so early after release.

I wouldn't say I'm worried, per se. :-D

I am having fun fiddling with the code and seeing how it changes the feel of the game.

 

[Iyur]

just build 10 fleets of the smallest size and avoid needing admirals

You can also check the fleets number and do the same in a global (contry) scope, as for example.
And one more idea - I'm not sure, but you can try to go through each ship in a fleet and dismantle all above a certain limit. However, dismantle couldn't work for a single ship (not a station).