Regarding Blackfyre (the Sword)

[Yorel]

Just a random thought that I'd like to suggest or at least discuss.

In the lore, when he was legitimized, Daemon Blackfyre took his name when Aegon IV gave him the sword of Aegon the Conqueror. In the subsequent Blackfyre Rebellion, his partisans were referring to him as "The King who bore the Sword", because they interpreted/presented Aegon IV's gift of Blackfyre to Daemon as the mark of Daemon being his father's heir.

This had me thinking: could the holder of Blackfyre be granted a claim on the Iron Throne if he isn't the King? This way, there could be the possibility of Blackfyre-style pretenders showing up.

The only thing that might be trouble would be if the swords ends up in the hands of a Non-Targaryen King. But then again, if I understood the mechanic right, Valyrian Steel Swords only leave the dynasty through mariages or if the dynasty dies out.

 

[SgtSmuckers]

Usually those of Targaryen descent already get claims to Dragonstone and IT, although it would be interesting to see a non-Targ get Blackfyre and start a rebellion for the throne.

 

[Rationalsanity]

I don't think possessing the sword alone would be enough to grant one a claim on the throne, especially if it was stolen. Some Ironborn raider without a drop of Targ blood grabbing the sword from a prince's corpse isn't going to make him King of the Seven Kingdoms in the eyes of anyone.

 

[SgtSmuckers]

I don't think possessing the sword alone would be enough to grant one a claim on the throne, especially if it was stolen. Some Ironborn raider without a drop of Targ blood grabbing the sword from a prince's corpse isn't going to make him King of the Seven Kingdoms in the eyes of anyone.

King Arthur of Camelot mate. This dude got a sword out of stone (or the lady in the lake version) and was made king. Think of dragons as Excalibur. Those with dragons typically rule, and one step down are those with valyrian steel swords, which happen to be old houses and/or powerful houses.

Ageon was met with dissension and was not a king, but a conqueror to many. You don't need their approval when you've got something that is better than words. Fire and steel is what keeps the kingdoms together or in the words of Robert Baratheon:

"One king, Seven Kingdoms! Do you think honor keeps them in line? Do you think it's honor that's keeping the peace? It's fear! Fear and blood!"
​

That being said, a valyrian steel sword such as Blackfyre would hold power, and not just physically.

​

 

[Rationalsanity]

King Arthur of Camelot mate. This dude got a sword out of stone (or the lady in the lake version) and was made king. Think of dragons as Excalibur. Those with dragons typically rule, and one step down are those with valyrian steel swords, which happen to be old houses and/or powerful houses.

Ageon was met with dissension and was not a king, but a conqueror to many. You don't need their approval when you've got something that is better than words. Fire and steel is what keeps the kingdoms together or in the words of Robert Baratheon:

"One king, Seven Kingdoms! Do you think honor keeps them in line? Do you think it's honor that's keeping the peace? It's fear! Fear and blood!"
​

That being said, a valyrian steel sword such as Blackfyre would hold power, and not just physically.

​

Dragons and swords are on totally different levels, the Dragon Conquest CB makes sense because if you have a dragon you can basically airstrike a pre-industrial world with near impunity. The dragons didn't give legitimacy, they gave battlefield domination. Blackfyre doesn't allow you to solo an army, there is no temporal power on that scale in a sword. The sword alone isn't going to give you the ability to conquer or hold much.

A sword like that should give prestige and a combat boost, but giving claims or a CB? That's too far. The comparison between the sword and a dragon is pointless, they give you entirely different levels of power.

And the king Arthur story was a myth, while in the ASOIAF universe dragons and special swords are real, the comparison is therefore meaningless.

 

[blackninja9939]

King Arthur of Camelot mate. This dude got a sword out of stone (or the lady in the lake version) and was made king. Think of dragons as Excalibur. Those with dragons typically rule, and one step down are those with valyrian steel swords, which happen to be old houses and/or powerful houses.

Ageon was met with dissension and was not a king, but a conqueror to many. You don't need their approval when you've got something that is better than words. Fire and steel is what keeps the kingdoms together or in the words of Robert Baratheon:

"One king, Seven Kingdoms! Do you think honor keeps them in line? Do you think it's honor that's keeping the peace? It's fear! Fear and blood!"
​

That being said, a valyrian steel sword such as Blackfyre would hold power, and not just physically.

​

Unfortunately this is not about Arthur or Merlin but is instead Game of Thrones, holding a sword does not instantly make you King or give you a claim. Also dragons are not really relate-able to a sword...

 

[vyshan]

What I am curious about is if it is possible to create a house Blackfyre as what happened Cannonically, ie being a Tageryen bastard and being granted the blackfye sword.

 

[Yorel]

I don't think possessing the sword alone would be enough to grant one a claim on the throne, especially if it was stolen. Some Ironborn raider without a drop of Targ blood grabbing the sword from a prince's corpse isn't going to make him King of the Seven Kingdoms in the eyes of anyone.

Technically, in the game files, Blackfrye was only ever held by members of House Targaryen or House Blackfyre before disappearing (and being recovered by Young Griff if he wins). And from what I've read, the rules for Valyrian Sword inheritance generally favor the dynasty or family members over the rest, so the sword would be unlikely to end up in the hands of someone not related to House Targaryen, and thus having a connection to the Iron Throne. Admitedly, the holder of Blackfyre could win a boost in support if he tried to claim the throne and had the sword of Aegon the Conqueror.

The theft of Blackfyre by some random dude is a problem though as you rightly pointed out. I don't know much about coding but I imagine this would hard if not impossible to code as an exception.

There is also the case of what happens to Blackfyre when the dynasty of the holder dies out as it becomes property of its liege. The liege would possibly have no claim to the Iron Throne, nor necessarilly be seen as a valid candidate by holding Blackfyre.