Sudden Crashes to Desktop

[Dathon]

No matter what nation i play, sometimes the game crashes to the desktop without an error-message.

I've got win-xp, changed the avi-dir, and updated the drivers for the vid-card and sound-card only a few weeks ago. This problem already excisted before i updated the game to 1.07 and before the driver update, but lately it's getting worse.

I can't say for sure if this happens at a particular time-period, cos when i reload the game it continiues without any problems.

What's wrong?

 

[AndrewT]

If it is a repeatable CTD at a certain date or event, it's likely a game bug, and we'll need the save game to diagnose it.

If they are random and unrepeatable, they are likely Windows or driver problems.

Let us know the complete specs of the system, OS version, Directx version, Ram, CPU, driver names and versions, the lot pls.

 

[Castellon]

How long can you play before the crash occurs?

Do you have any mods installed?

 

[unmerged(17399)]

I seem to have the same crashing problem. Have version 1.07 atm but it's happened before. No mods installed either. It does seem to happen at random times, not at and specific times or events.

I have an athalon 1800+
Win XP
Geforce4 MX 420
768 SDRAM
Direct X8.1

 

[Castellon]

Originally posted by Sobieski III
I seem to have the same crashing problem. Have version 1.07 atm but it's happened before. No mods installed either. It does seem to happen at random times, not at and specific times or events.

I have an athalon 1800+
Win XP
Geforce4 MX 420
768 SDRAM
Direct X8.1

Have you renamed your AVI folder to AVI_back?
Have you updated your Audio and Video drivers?

 

[unmerged(17399)]

Yup, I updated all the drivers, tried renaming the AVI folder, changing the resolution. Still have the random crashes to desktop.

 

[AndrewT]

Originally posted by Sobieski III
I seem to have the same crashing problem.

No, you have _a_ crashing problem Since we have no details from the original poster we don't know if it's the same or not. It is always best to start your own thread rather than do a "me too" like this, that confuses everyone.

 

[Dathon]

Specs: Win-xp, Radeon 8500, AMD-processor(don't know what type, i'll post it tomorrow), dx-9.0 (i think otherwise 8.1).

Renamed the avi-dir, 1.07 patch, mods: euunlimitedpatch, Eu random scenario generator and MKJ's Grand Campaign).

Yesterday playing as England had the CTD's again; time-periode around 1485, after several reloads the game continiued without any problems.

Now i got the AGC, so i'll start a new game and if its happening again i'll make a savegame.

 

[Castellon]

dx9.0 was unstable, you should upgrade to the latest version.

 

[Dathon]

Specs: AMD Athlon XP 2000+, Radeon 8500, SB Audigy, DX 9.0a, 512 MB RAM and about 10 - 15 gigabyte free space.

I'll ask my brother if he can put the latest update for DX on CD.

But i don't think this is the problem, cos it happend with 8.1 too.

 

[Castellon]

Do a fresh install following the directions listed in the self help thread.
See if you get the crashes with no mods installed.

 

[Dathon]

Where do i send the save-games to?

 

[Castellon]

Hold on to it for now, in a seperate folder that is not in the EU2 folder structure.

 

[Dathon]

Yesterday i bought HOI, and what do you think.... a sudden CtD. .

 

[Castellon]

Originally posted by Dathon
Specs: AMD Athlon XP 2000+, Radeon 8500, SB Audigy, DX 9.0a, 512 MB RAM and about 10 - 15 gigabyte free space.

I'll ask my brother if he can put the latest update for DX on CD.

But i don't think this is the problem, cos it happend with 8.1 too.

Okay, you have an Athlon with an Audigy. Big problems with this combo!

Sorry I did not notice this before.

You need a different set of drivers.
Let me find a nice link for you that explains it better.

 

[Castellon]

Originally posted by jpd
AMD Athlon + VIA chipset + complete lockup = infinite loop.

Had to fight this problem myself early this year. It is caused by a faulty AGP driver from VIA.

Uninstall the VIA 4in1 driver set completely, and use the Microsoft stock IDE drivers and AGP drivers. Then the lockups should no longer happen.

A brief explanation maybe in order about what is going on:

The AGP portion of the northbridge maintains a command/data queue for pending transactions, which works both ways. AGP transactions are always 64 bits. The problem starts when the software initiates a transfer starting on an odd DWORD boundary. The transaction must be completed in two cycles instead of one.

When, after the first cycle is complete but before the second cycle starts, the AGP card itself also request a transfer transaction, and this transaction for some reason requires the one from the CPU to be completed first, both transactions deadlock each other.

The interrupted transaction can no longer complete, as the video card will reject it, pending completion of it's own transaction. The AGP card's transaction cannot complete either, as it requires completion of the one initiated from the CPU. Because of the bouncing of the second part of the split CPU transaction, Microsoft has named this problem 'infinite loop'. Because of the lockout in the northbridge of the chipset, the processor is permanently locked out of all memory access, and thus cannot execute any other instructions, nor can it respond to interrupts. This will cause a soundcard to repeat it's last loaded sound fragment ad infinitum, for example.

Intel has documented this particular sitiuation in it's official AGP specification, with an explicit warning to software/driver developers to make sure the above described situation is to be avoided at all times, as it will completely freeze the system. It can be avoided completely by assuring that software drivers initiate memory transfers on even DWORD boundaries only, as the AGP transaction will then only need one uninterruptable cycle and thus avoids the deadlock situation. Unfortunately, the VIA programmers haven't made sure their drivers follow this advice.

Jan Peter

 

[Dathon]

Well, my brother installed my pc and he can't remember installing any via-drivers.
Anyway where can i get the required drivers?

 

[Castellon]

I think the VIA drivers are auto installed.

I PMed jpd, to take a look at this thread, hopefully he will drop by soon and give you further info.

 

[Dathon]

Thx for everything

 

[jpd]

Ok. Castellon asked me to check in on this one, so here I am.

First of all, when you use Windows XP and you have an Athlon system based on a VIA chipset, then the Via 4in1 drivers are installed automatically, as version 4.34 (or .35) is bundled with Windows XP. It's one of the main reasons I never will be able to install XP on my current hardware.

Secondly, when you do have this combo, then an infinite loop error can occur. However, in your case it doesn't sound that you are plagued by this, as the infinite loop manifests itself by completely freezing the system, not by crashing to the desktop.

When the game CtD's, it is most likely an access violation somewhere. I have run a test a while back, where I ran EU2 under control of my CBuilder's remote debugger, so the debugger could catch the conditions of the CtD. In all of these cases, the debugger reported an access violation in EU2. Acces violations are triggered by the processor, when the running program (or support libraries like drivers, etc) try to manipulate memory locations they aren't supposed to, which usually points to a bug in such a program or driver. (I still wish that Johan builds an exception handler into EU2, HoI and Victoria, that writes this crash info into a log file. Then users can post that log file in case of a CtD, so we can have a meaningfull discussion instead of the current guessing game).

Sadly, EU2 still contains a few loopholes in the code, that can cause it to access memory it isn't supposed to under rare conditions. I still get them from time to time. There is usually no repeatable pattern, as a reload of a save game doesn't trigger a CtD at a set date.

As for your system specs and drivers. If you can run other DirectX games reliably and without unexplainable lockups and crashes, it is most likely that you (unfurtunately) have stumbled onto an access violation bug in EU2.

A final question. At what game speed were you running EU2 and HoI. I ask this, because, on my system, EU2 tends to crash a lot more often when I let it run at high speeds (like 8 months a minute or higher). Noeadays, I never run it faster than 2 months a minute. I never run HoI faster than above normal, and at above normal speed only when there are no wars going on anywhere in the game.

Jan Peter