Suggestions for Improved Moddability

[Tintiam]

Jumping on the "moddable autocephaly/pentarchy" train.

Also would love to have "pre_reformed=yes" and "show_in_ledger=no" to be separate. I know that it would pretty much only matter for my mod, but it would be super nice.

You can probably build a workaround for your ledger problem though. Reform the religion immediatley on_chronicle_start, meaning it's done before the player even does anything. But yeah would definitely be easier if the two are split

 

[blackninja9939]

Holding true to what I said I have compiled a not too biased (I hope) list of suggestions that should benefit most people. This is only a list of things that (in my not so well educated in coding a game view) will not be to difficult to add in and are not suggestions that as of now have reasonably easy workarounds for (with a couple of minor exceptions) or ones that are very specific to certain situations that only one or two mods may ever use.
The aim of this list it narrow down the things for @Divine to look at as higher priority suggestions as opposed to going through the suggestions page on the wiki which has many ideas to specific or difficult to every be useful to most modders and also had suggestions which are already implemented but have not been moved yet on the wiki.

Spoiler

• Ability to select characters who have a pseudo-landed titles in the character select screen, at the moment they are not selectable but do not game over if you console to them
• Make the spawning of new characters from the create a vassal function (right click on a barony holding) a fully moddable decision. Or at least an on_action.
• Allow the new council added with the 'Conclave' DLC to vote on targeted decisions (and perhaps normal decisions). The current command 'enable_council_voting_on_issue =' currently only works on the existing decisions intended for use in vanilla.
• even_if_dead versions for all types of familial relation scopes (real_father_even_if_dead, any_child_even_if_dead, random_child_even_if_dead, any_dynasty_member_even_if_dead, random_dynasty_member_even_if_dead, any_sibling_even_if_dead, random_sibling_even_if_dead)
• Add the scopes any_tributary and random_tributary. Thus allowing one to scope from a suzerain to one of their tributary characters. Currently it appears that it is only possible to scope from tributaries to their suzerain.
• A can_inherit = yes/no character trigger; currently one has to check for every trait that prevents inheritance. similar to the can_marry trigger
• A way to start a disease outbreak in a province by event/command.
• A way to stop a disease in progress in a province by event/command.
• War-scope effects add_attacker = CHAR, add_defender = CHAR where CHAR is a character
• Effects leave_faction = name, join_faction = { faction = name who = CHAR } where the CHAR is optional and only relevant for faction types with a 3rd-party actor
• The ability to maximum for scaled_wealth commands, there is already the ability to set a min but not a max
• scaled_piety and scaled_prestige to go along with scaled_wealth, also having min and max for them
• Allow buildings other than those in a [Patrician-only] family_palace holding to apply general character modifiers to their holder (such as boost intrigue/stewardship)
• Option to have only female priests in a religion
• Option to have randomly generated female mayors, or only female mayors
• Enable female polyandry (e.g., max_husbands = N and females_can_have_consorts = yes as new religion properties)
• Split the pentarchy from autocephaly
• The ability to mod caste and religious sect traits more. I.e. making more castes for other cultures. Right now making new castes only seems to appear for Indian religions, even if you add an allow = {} when making new caste traits.
• Ability to make a culture feminist = yes to negate negative opinion from female rulers or heirs in the same way it is possible in religions
• Similar to duchy_revokation for the Byzantine Empire, add barony_revokation, county_revokation, and kingdom_revokation
• Allow pass_effect in succession and gender succession laws as is allowed with de_jure_laws (extension to demesne laws would also be nice)
• Allow ai_will_do in gender succession laws (currently does not work)
• Allow calling events through the laws "effect" and/or in (if it is added) pass_effect.
• CB actions on_invalid and on_invalid_title that trigger right before a war invalidates (the latter allows referencing the CB target title and is the most critical)
• Add a can_assimilate flag for titles. can_assimilate = no would prevent the title from assimilating duchies/kingdoms INTO the title, would then need to clarify the existing assimilate = no used by k_jerusalem
• The cannot_marry = yes trait effect blocks a character being given titles, now that can_hold_titles = no has been added remove the inability to grant people titles when they have cannot_marry = yes traits
• An enatic = yes equivalent to agnatic = yes, so infants will always inherit a trait from their mother.
• Third-party title/character support for targetted_decisions (to allow diplo-actions in the form of Arrange Marriage or Grant Landed Title)
• Allow AI job action scripting (currently only uses vanilla job actions) can be worked around by the new ability to force a councillor to perform an action in a province but this would be much easier
• A way to add new death reasons without having to make a dummy trait and use trait_death_reason
• A defines to revert alliances to pre 2.5.x version where you had a choice to join a war
• Ability to make a characters dynasty coat of arms their title flag
• Make set_coa persist through saves instead of resetting
• Expand the moddability of DNA. Number of option slots should not be hardcoded
• Add a set_dna command which can take a dna string
• Add a copy_dna command which takes a scope eg: copy_dna = FROM

I hope everyone agrees these are some generally good suggestions and not to ridiculous, hopefully this will allow @Divine to have an easier time at seeing the more plausible suggestions.

 

[ngppgn]

Holding true to what I said I have compiled a not too biased (I hope) list of suggestions that should benefit most people. This is only a list of things that (in my not so well educated in coding a game view) will not be to difficult to add in and are not suggestions that as of now have reasonably easy workarounds for (with a couple of minor exceptions) or ones that are very specific to certain situations that only one or two mods may ever use.
The aim of this list it narrow down the things for @Divine to look at as higher priority suggestions as opposed to going through the suggestions page on the wiki which has many ideas to specific or difficult to every be useful to most modders and also had suggestions which are already implemented but have not been moved yet on the wiki.

Spoiler

• Ability to select characters who have a pseudo-landed titles in the character select screen, at the moment they are not selectable but do not game over if you console to them
• Make the spawning of new characters from the create a vassal function (right click on a barony holding) a fully moddable decision. Or at least an on_action.
• Allow the new council added with the 'Conclave' DLC to vote on targeted decisions (and perhaps normal decisions). The current command 'enable_council_voting_on_issue =' currently only works on the existing decisions intended for use in vanilla.
• even_if_dead versions for all types of familial relation scopes (real_father_even_if_dead, any_child_even_if_dead, random_child_even_if_dead, any_dynasty_member_even_if_dead, random_dynasty_member_even_if_dead, any_sibling_even_if_dead, random_sibling_even_if_dead)
• Add the scopes any_tributary and random_tributary. Thus allowing one to scope from a suzerain to one of their tributary characters. Currently it appears that it is only possible to scope from tributaries to their suzerain.
• A can_inherit = yes/no character trigger; currently one has to check for every trait that prevents inheritance. similar to the can_marry trigger
• A way to start a disease outbreak in a province by event/command.
• A way to stop a disease in progress in a province by event/command.
• War-scope effects add_attacker = CHAR, add_defender = CHAR where CHAR is a character
• Effects leave_faction = name, join_faction = { faction = name who = CHAR } where the CHAR is optional and only relevant for faction types with a 3rd-party actor
• The ability to maximum for scaled_wealth commands, there is already the ability to set a min but not a max
• scaled_piety and scaled_prestige to go along with scaled_wealth, also having min and max for them
• Allow buildings other than those in a [Patrician-only] family_palace holding to apply general character modifiers to their holder (such as boost intrigue/stewardship)
• Option to have only female priests in a religion
• Option to have randomly generated female mayors, or only female mayors
• Enable female polyandry (e.g., max_husbands = N and females_can_have_consorts = yes as new religion properties)
• Split the pentarchy from autocephaly
• The ability to mod caste and religious sect traits more. I.e. making more castes for other cultures. Right now making new castes only seems to appear for Indian religions, even if you add an allow = {} when making new caste traits.
• Ability to make a culture feminist = yes to negate negative opinion from female rulers or heirs in the same way it is possible in religions
• Similar to duchy_revokation for the Byzantine Empire, add barony_revokation, county_revokation, and kingdom_revokation
• Allow pass_effect in succession and gender succession laws as is allowed with de_jure_laws (extension to demesne laws would also be nice)
• Allow ai_will_do in gender succession laws (currently does not work)
• Allow calling events through the laws "effect" and/or in (if it is added) pass_effect.
• CB actions on_invalid and on_invalid_title that trigger right before a war invalidates (the latter allows referencing the CB target title and is the most critical)
• Add a can_assimilate flag for titles. can_assimilate = no would prevent the title from assimilating duchies/kingdoms INTO the title, would then need to clarify the existing assimilate = no used by k_jerusalem
• The cannot_marry = yes trait effect blocks a character being given titles, now that can_hold_titles = no has been added remove the inability to grant people titles when they have cannot_marry = yes traits
• An enatic = yes equivalent to agnatic = yes, so infants will always inherit a trait from their mother.
• Third-party title/character support for targetted_decisions (to allow diplo-actions in the form of Arrange Marriage or Grant Landed Title)
• Allow AI job action scripting (currently only uses vanilla job actions) can be worked around by the new ability to force a councillor to perform an action in a province but this would be much easier
• A way to add new death reasons without having to make a dummy trait and use trait_death_reason
• A defines to revert alliances to pre 2.5.x version where you had a choice to join a war
• Ability to make a characters dynasty coat of arms their title flag
• Make set_coa persist through saves instead of resetting
• Expand the moddability of DNA. Number of option slots should not be hardcoded
• Add a set_dna command which can take a dna string
• Add a copy_dna command which takes a scope eg: copy_dna = FROM

I hope everyone agrees these are some generally good suggestions and not to ridiculous, hopefully this will allow @Divine to have an easier time at seeing the more plausible suggestions.

And, I dare add, a dna = <dna string> trigger to go with the dna commands, or something to that effect.

 

[Zarathustra_the]

I think we do also need an any_hostile scope as well

 

[Jorlem]

Would it be feasible to add an equivalent of job_titles' "dismiss_trigger" condition for minor titles, or the block format for "revoke_allowed"? It would be nice to be able to fine tune if certain groups can revoke a minor title, while others cannot. (I'm hoping to be able to do this with the commander minor title, as unlike most others, I can't create a duplicate minor title for the group that would assign the job for life.)

 

[Jorlem]

Apologies for the double post, but I'd rather make a fresh post for a new suggestion. (At least, one that I am not making at the same time.)

Anyway, I would like to request conditions monthly_piety and monthly_prestige, to use alongside the existing monthly_income, so we could trigger effects if a character is earning more than a certain amount of prestige or piety in a month, or to check if the character is continuously loosing piety.

 

[Zarathustra_the]

Would we be able to get an is_enemy conditional, and *_enemy scopes?

 

[Divine]

Fix the broken scripting interface fundamentals associated with tribal vassals that have been called to war so that basic vassal-liege, title, and war scripting assumptions will work properly with them

• Though they appear like a normal vassal, is_liege_or_above and related are broken in a fully ambiguous way for scripting
  • Their liege scope resolves to themselves, and so does their liege_before_war scope (!).
  • If it is a defensive war (or at least for certain types of them), they also do not show up within the war scope any_defender as war participants (their liege being the primary defender). They are not even hostile toward, i.e., war_with the attacker.
  • There is effectively no way at all to deal with the hard-coded magic from patch 2.2 that still binds them to their real liege / discern tribal realm structure from script.

I did some checks starting as a tribal realm, starting some wars and calling my vassals to the war. Everything seemed to resolve as it should in script with the vassals still being able to scope to me as their liege and being able to access the vassals through any_attacker scope inside the war scope.

Am I misunderstanding the post in the wiki-list or can people confirm if this is still a valid issue? I would be grateful if this could be cleared up because it does sound like a nasty issue but I can't reproduce any of the effects.

 

[Jorlem]

I would like to request the ability to place triggers on the "dignity", "opinion_effect", "monthly_salary", and "monthly_prestige" for job_titles. I'd like to be able to make it so that various religions and government types can hold certain positions in more or less esteem. For example, Jain characters should value the Marshal job less than the baseline, while Nomads treat it with more respect. A merchant republic would consider the position of Steward to be a more prestigious position than a feudal monarchy might. That sort of thing.

 

[Tintiam]

I would like to request the ability to place triggers on the "dignity", "opinion_effect", "monthly_salary", and "monthly_prestige" for job_titles. I'd like to be able to make it so that various religions and government types can hold certain positions in more or less esteem. For example, Jain characters should value the Marshal job less than the baseline, while Nomads treat it with more respect. A merchant republic would consider the position of Steward to be a more prestigious position than a feudal monarchy might. That sort of thing.

You can do that with character modifiers and events

 

[Jorlem]

You can do that with character modifiers and events

Yeah, but the AI won't know about it in the decision making process, and it won't show up in the tooltips.

Edit:
Just remembered, I'd also like to request a way to easily scope to all characters who have a vote if the realm has elective succession.

 

[ngppgn]

You can do that with character modifiers and events

Not the fignity part, though

 

[ngppgn]

Yeah, but the AI won't know about it in the decision making process, and it won't show up in the tooltips.

Edit:
Just remembered, I'd also like to request a way to easily scope to all characters who have a vote if the realm has elective succession.

Can't this be done with any_realm-ckqracter and the right conditions in a limit? E.g. in an empire with feudal elective it's any character of tier duke or above.

 

[Jorlem]

Can't this be done with any_realm-ckqracter and the right conditions in a limit? E.g. in an empire with feudal elective it's any character of tier duke or above.

Don't characters outside the realm get a vote if they are de_jure to the elective title? Also, you'd need to set conditions for every title tier, from count to emperor. While it is doable, it would be annoyingly complex and likely rather expensive. (The idea I had in mind for this was wanting to give all electors an opinion malus towards their liege if the character he is voting for as heir doesn't also have the commander minor title or is a marshal.)

 

[Zarathustra_the]

So I added to the wiki a request for *_enemy scopes and an is_enemy conditional.

 

[Jorlem]

I'd like to request a realm_opinion opinion modifier. I'd imagine it working like general_opinion, but limited to characters within the same realm as the character it applies to.

Edit:
Also, a chosen_candidate scope, for scoping from electors in a realm with some sort of elective succession to the character that they are currently voting for.

 

[Mackus]

I've added following suggestion:
Add law effect "abduction = yes/no" that will allow/prohibit abducting prisoners by rulers of religions or government forms that normally allow it. If prohibited, only voluntary concubinage by request to liege of woman, or to woman already in court, is allowed. (useful in vanilla as part of Status of Women laws).
Because currently even if you enact maximum status of women laws, you still cannot ban abducting women for sex if you happen to play Pagans or Indians.

 

[Atlantians]

@Captain Gars , @Divine ,

Moddability Suggestions:

While Duchy level free revocation exists already in some form,

Spoiler

'free revocation of duchy tier titles'
(already exists in Imperial Administration without Charlemagne active)

'free revocation of duchy vice-royalty titles'
(already exists in Imperial Administration with Charlemagne active)

Barony, County, and Kingdom free revocation is currently impossible without enabling it universally in a whole new Government type.

So, these ideas should be added for Modding in Laws:

'free revocation of barony tier title'

'free revocation of county tier title'

'county tier vice-royalty'

'free revocation of county tier vice-royalty title'

'free revocation of kingdom tier title'

'free revocation of kingdom tier vice-royal title.'

These are necessary for better modeling the landholding system under the Eastern Roman Empire.

Additionally, there should be a way of revoking a title at a cost other than tyranny. You should be able to add in a prestige cost, or a piety cost to each level of title revocation.

Thanks!

 

[Zarathustra_the]

added request to apply a Command_modifier block from within a character_modifier not just from a trait.

 

[Atlantians]

@Tintiam , how can you respectfully disagree with an improved moddability request?

That doesn't even make sense.