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Time to look at the naval tech tree - what should be changed?

I'd personally like to see references to milimetres removed and replaced with the more familiar imperial measurement of inches.

Code: 
# 1 - Early Century Naval Innovations
		# Naval Expansion Engine
		# Naval Steel Armor
		# Naval Breach-Loader Turret
		# Barbette Turret
		# Naval Steam Torpedo
		# Old Cruiser Hull
		# Torpedo Boat Destroyer Hull
		# Old Cruiser
		# Torpedo Boat Destroyer
		# Transport
# 2 - Early Century Warship Design
		# Naval Multiple Expansion Engine
		# Naval Krupp Armor
		# Shell Hoist
		# Battleship Belt Armor 175mm+
		# Cruiser Belt Armor 150mm+
		# Battleship Deck Armor 50mm+
		# Cruiser Deck Armor 20mm+
		# Armored Cruiser Hull
		# Pre-Dreadnought Hull
		# Armored Cruiser
		# Pre-Dreadnought
# 3 - Basic Naval Armor and Armament
		# Basic Naval Petrol Torpedo
		# Basic Fire-Control System
		# Torpedo Net
		# Naval Harvey Steel
		# Battleship Belt Armor 250mm+
		# Cruiser Belt Armor 75mm+
		# Battleship Deck Armor 75mm+
		# Cruiser Deck Armor 30mm+
		# Closed Turret
# 4 - Basic Warship Design
		# Basic Naval Turbine Engine
		# Basic Dreadnought Hull
		# Light Cruiser Hull
		# Basic Destroyer Hull
		# Basic Dreadnought
		# Light Cruiser
		# Basic Destroyer
# 5 - Specialized Warship Development
		# Improved Naval Turbine Engine
		# Basic Naval Wireless Services
		# Battlecruiser Hull
		# Battlecruiser
		# Armored Transport
# 6 - Improved Naval Armor and Armament
		# Improved Naval Petrol Torpedo
		# Basic Hydrophone
		# Split Compartment Hull
		# Centerline Armament
		# Improved Fire-Control System
		# Battleship Belt Armor 300mm+
		# Battleship Deck Armor 100mm+
		# Cruiser Deck Armor 40mm+
# 7 - Improved Warship Design
		# Advanced Naval Turbine Engine
		# Improved Dreadnought Hull
		# Improved Cruiser and Carrier Hull
		# Improved Destroyer Hull
		# Improved Dreadnought
		# Improved Cruiser
		# Improved Destroyer
		# Seaplane Carrier
# 8 - Advanced Naval Armor and Armament
		# Improved Hydrophone
		# Sonar System
		# Advanced Fire-Control System
		# Improved Naval Wireless Services
		# Battleship Belt Armor 350mm+
		# Cruiser Belt Armor 100mm+
		# Battleship Deck Armor 150mm+
		# Cruiser Deck Armor 50mm+
		# Basic Anti-Air Armament	
# 9 - Advanced Warship Design
		# Magazine Explosion Prevention
		# Advanced Dreadnought Hull (Super Dreadnought Hull?)
		# Advanced Cruiser and Carrier Hull
		# Advanced Destroyer Hull
		# Advanced Dreadnought (Super Dreadnought?)
		# Advanced Cruiser
		# Advanced Destroyer
		# Basic Carrier
		# Advanced Anti-Air Armament
		# Shipboard Aircraft
		
# 10 - Extra 
# 11 - Extra
# 12 - Extra
 
ptan54 said:
Keep it as mm please? We're all more familiar with it - or perhaps we could have it as N mm (X inches).
Click to expand...

Familiar to milimetres? Not me.

Nearly all references to sizes of naval guns and armour that I have seen are in inches. I could tell you that the Queen Elizabeth had 15 inch guns......but I've no idea how many milimetres that is...

Besides, milimetres are far too Eurocentric for my liking, and the realms of navies and seafaring are well and truly in the Anglo-American domain. ;)
 
The Metric System RULEZ!!!

The U.S. System of measurement blows! I had to spend 20 minutes the other night trying to convert cups to OUNZES! I love the metric system. It is easier- ESPECIALLY FOR PROGRAMMING! This is because it makes decimals- Sensible! :eek: God forbid we have a measurement system that makes ANY sense at all! :mad:

Paradox is Swedish? And produced by Canadian Stat. First? This is getting more international all the time.

But anyway...

There should be an air doctrine tech- "Ace Rotation System"
It would improve org of Fighter squads by 10 and their air defense/attack by one. to show that the pilots feel more confident and are 'whipped into shape' by the ace. The attack/defense improvement represents the Ace training and 'rescuing' his wingmen.
 
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Metric for me, please. Although ptan's dual system would also be good. I gather from this proposal Allenby's a euro-sceptic. :)

If you start changing the naval things from metric, then the arty tech tree will have two different systems, and you'll want to rename the french 75s to "3 inch field guns" or something. :p

Would something like 305mm (12 inch), 381mm (15 inch) make you happy? Or the reverse, if you feel the need for imperial prevalence in the naval side of things.
 
To Hell with Imperial Prevalence! Don't give in- the U.S. Measurement system is like Nazi Germany- give in to it and you'll have to give more!
 
StephenT said:
On the other hand, Paradox are Swedish, and it's their game.
Click to expand...

Aha, but it's our mod! :) To quote a favourite childhood maxim: "It's my ball and I'm going home."

The imperial measurement preference would apply to naval technology, with the metric size in brackets, so that those strange folk who speak of gun sizes and armour plating in metric terms can be satisfied.

Looking at the naval tree, are there any techs that can be merged into one to give more space? We'll need at least four extra gaps (three provided by the 'extra' ones that haven't been used) to cover Advanced Super Dreadnought and Advanced Super Dreadnought hull, as well as the Advanced Battlecruiser and Advanced Battlecruiser Hull.
 
But that is how it always has and always will be.

Even today there are only 14 Aircraft Carriers worldwide (in operation) and the U.S. and Britain have 9 of them.
 
ptan54 said:
We could just scrap the earliest level and be nice even to the little countries at the beginning.....assume those techs are given for all.
Click to expand...

I would favour something like that, although I wouldn't scrap it completely, I would advocate the compression of levels 1 and 2 into a single level. For example, 'Old Cruiser Hull' can be removed which would allow the research of this vessel require only one tech - the ship itself. The same could probably apply to pre-Dreadnoughts and Torpedo Boat Destroyers.
 
Last edited:
Latest naval tree:

Code: 
# 1 - Early Century Naval Innovations
		# Naval Expansion Engine
		# Naval Steel Armour
		# Naval Breach-Loader Turret
		# Barbette Turret
		# Whitehead Torpedo
		# 
		# 
		# Old Cruiser
		# Torpedo Boat Destroyer
		# Transport
# 2 - Early Century Warship Design
		# Naval Multiple Expansion Engine
		# Naval Krupp Armour
		# Shell Hoist
		# Battleship Belt Armour 7" (175mm+)
		# Cruiser Belt Armour 6" (150mm+)
		# Battleship Deck Armour 2" (50mm+)
		# Cruiser Deck Armour 1" (20mm+)
		# 
		# Armoured Cruiser
		# Pre-Dreadnought
# 3 - Basic Naval Armour and Armament
		# Basic Naval Petrol Torpedo
		# Basic Fire-Control System
		# Torpedo Net
		# Naval Harvey Steel
		# Battleship Belt Armour 10" (250mm+)
		# Cruiser Belt Armour 3" (75mm+)
		# Battleship Deck Armour 3" (75mm+)
		# Cruiser Deck Armour 1.2" (30mm+)
		# Closed Turret
# 4 - Basic Warship Design
		# Basic Naval Turbine Engine
		# Basic Dreadnought Hull
		# Light Cruiser Hull
		# Basic Destroyer Hull
		# Basic Dreadnought
		# Light Cruiser
		# Basic Destroyer
# 5 - Specialized Warship Development
		# Improved Naval Turbine Engine
		# Basic Naval Wireless Services
		# Battlecruiser Hull
		# Battlecruiser
		# Armoured Transport
# 6 - Improved Naval Armour and Armament
		# Improved Naval Petrol Torpedo
		# Basic Hydrophone
		# Split Compartment Hull
		# Centerline Armament
		# Improved Fire-Control System
		# Battleship Belt Armour 12" (300mm+)
		# Battleship Deck Armour 4" (100mm+)
		# Cruiser Deck Armour 1.5" (40mm+)
# 7 - Improved Warship Design
		# Advanced Naval Turbine Engine
		# Improved Dreadnought Hull
		# Improved Cruiser and Carrier Hull
		# Improved Destroyer Hull
		# Improved Dreadnought
		# Improved Cruiser
		# Improved Destroyer
		# Seaplane Carrier
# 8 - Advanced Naval Armour and Armament
		# Improved Hydrophone
		# Sonar System
		# Advanced Fire-Control System
		# Improved Naval Wireless Services
		# Battleship Belt Armour 14" (350mm+)
		# Cruiser Belt Armour 4" (100mm+)
		# Battleship Deck Armour 6" (150mm+)
		# Cruiser Deck Armour 2" (50mm+)
		# Basic Anti-Air Armament	
# 9 - Advanced Warship Design
		# Magazine Explosion Prevention
		# Super Dreadnought Hull
		# Advanced Cruiser and Carrier Hull
		# Advanced Destroyer Hull
		# Super Dreadnought
		# Advanced Cruiser
		# Advanced Destroyer
		# Basic Carrier
		# Advanced Anti-Air Armament
		# Shipboard Aircraft		
 		# Advanced Battlecruiser Hull
		# Advanced Super Dreadnought Hull
		# Advanced Battlecruiser
		# Advanced Super Dreadnought

I'm hoping to merge levels 1 and 2, so that more techs can be added at the bottom of the tree in the development of the Advanced Battlecruiser and Super Dreadnoughts.
 
And why can't we just add an extra level to the tree without cutting anything? If we only have nine levels, that should be possible. CORE has eleven tech levels in the naval tree, and that is working well.

No country should be starting from the root of the tree and reach the end of it, anyway.
 
Gwalcmai said:
And why can't we just add an extra level to the tree without cutting anything? If we only have nine levels, that should be possible. CORE has eleven tech levels in the naval tree, and that is working well.

No country should be starting from the root of the tree and reach the end of it, anyway.
Click to expand...

Pardon me, I was working under the impression that there was a limit on the number of techs that could be in a tree....
 
I think there is a limit of 14. If so, we're still somewhat short. :) And there does seem to be a lower limit, judging by the crashing heavy aircraft was causing a while back.
 
Gwalcmai said:
I think there is a limit of 14. If so, we're still somewhat short. :) And there does seem to be a lower limit, judging by the crashing heavy aircraft was causing a while back.
Click to expand...

Does it matter how many techs can be in a level? The tree could have fourteen levels to it with each part consisting of many advances and still cause problems, I'd have thought.
 
A similar question: is there a limit on the number of different models of a unit you can have? This mostly applies to battleships, especially if we are treating battlecruisers as a separate model.

For example:

Pre-Dreadnought (eg HMS King Edward VII) In TGW currently. 1890-1905
Dreadnought (eg HMS Dreadnought) Called 'Basic Dreadnought' in TGW currently. 1906-11
Battlecruiser (eg HMS Indefatigable) In TGW currently. 1907-12
Superdeadnought (eg HMS Orion) Called 'Improved Dreadnought' in TGW currently. 1912-14
Improved Battlecruiser (eg HMS Renown) Not in TGW currently. 1913-
Battleship (eg HMS Queen Elizabeth) Called 'Advanced Dreadnought' in TGW currently. 1915-19
Improved Battleship (eg HMS Rodney) Not in TGW currently. 1920-
 
Good question, I want to know this as well :)
 
Here are the generic battleship models for CORE.

MODEL_18_0;Coast Defense Battleship;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_18_1;Pre-Dreadnaught Battleship;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_18_2;Battlecruiser;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_18_3;Dreadnaught Battleship;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_18_4;Small Treaty Battlecruiser;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_18_5;Large Battlecruiser;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_18_6;Super Dreadnaught Battleship;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_18_7;Fast Super Dreadnaught Battleship;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_18_8;Treaty Battleship;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_18_9;Fast Battleship;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_18_10;Post-Treaty Battleship;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_18_11;Super Battleship;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_18_12;Guided Missile Battleship;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_18_13;Nuclear Super Battleship;;;;;;;;;;x
MODEL_18_14;Nuclear Guided Missile Battleship;;;;;;;;;;x

I'd say you can safely add the Improved Battleship. :)
 
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