Templars and Hospitallers

[Maleficus]

I've conquered the holy land, and now I'm constantly getting Templars and Hospitallers demand I give them land. So far I've been telling them to stick it, but this is playing murder with my piety. Bearing in mind that rather than making them a vassal, giving them the land instead just lets them take a county and run it independently (with no recompense). It seems to me that this particular event happens with an annoying frequency, andhas only negative outcomes, unless there's something I'm missing.

How do the rest of you folks deal with it?



And by the by, what exactly is piety used for anyway?

I personally haven't really noticed it have any effect myself, but low piety is rather annoying when you're trying to make an AAR (see sig) revolving arounder the establishment of the Crusader state of Jerusalem

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

I've conquered the holy land, and now I'm constantly getting Templars and Hospitallers demand I give them land. So far I've been telling them to stick it, but this is playing murder with my piety. Bearing in mind that rather than making them a vassal, giving them the land instead just lets them take a county and run it independently (with no recompense). It seems to me that this particular event happens with an annoying frequency, andhas only negative outcomes, unless there's something I'm missing.

How do the rest of you folks deal with it?

Just give them the province when they ask you to.

And by the by, what exactly is piety used for anyway?

I personally haven't really noticed it have any effect myself, but low piety is rather annoying when you're trying to make an AAR (see sig) revolving arounder the establishment of the Crusader state of Jerusalem

The more piety you have, the quicker your reputation improves (though it is maxed at some point). If you f.e. have 2000 piety, your reputation will improve very quickly.

Also if you have positive piety your bishop-vassals get a monthly loyalty-bonus.

Also with high piety you can become Papal Controller, though the piety is only a factor for that when there is a Crusade going on.

IMO you can never have to much piety.

 

[Maleficus]

Just give them the province when they ask you to.

Well I wouldn't have a problem with that if they then became my vassals, but just giving land away seems somewhat counter-productive.

The more piety you have, the quicker your reputation improves (though it is maxed at some point). If you f.e. have 2000 piety, your reputation will improve very quickly.

Also if you have positive piety your bishop-vassals get a monthly loyalty-bonus.

Also with high piety you can become Papal Controller, though the piety is only a factor for that when there is a Crusade going on.

IMO you can never have to much piety.

Ah, thanks. Makes much more sense now

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Well I wouldn't have a problem with that if they then became my vassals, but just giving land away seems somewhat counter-productive.

What I sometimes do is make them my vassals by editing my save-game

 

[Maleficus]

What I sometimes do is make them my vassals by editing my save-game

Is there a guide anywhere on how to do that then? Cos personally I have no idea.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Is there a guide anywhere on how to do that then? Cos personally I have no idea.

Don't think so, but it is relatively easy

1. Open your save-game with Wordpad/Notepad

2. Search for either TEMP (The Templars) or HOSP (The Hospilaters) untill you see an entry like this

title = { 
    tag = HOSP
    tier = kingdom
    liege = ---- 
    holder = { character = { type = 10 id = 1758 } startdate = { year = 1066 month = january day = 0 } } 
    claim = { id = { type = 4712 id = 34462 } character = { type = 10 id = 1736 } date = { year = 1074 month = march day = 2 } } 
    }

Then change it to this

title = { 
    tag = HOSP
    tier =[COLOR="Lime"] duchy [/COLOR]
    liege = [COLOR="Lime"]XXXX[/COLOR]
    holder = { character = { type = 10 id = 1758 } startdate = { year = 1066 month = january day = 0 } } 
    claim = { id = { type = 4712 id = 34462 } character = { type = 10 id = 1736 } date = { year = 1074 month = march day = 2 } } 
    }

Where XXXX is then the tag of your kingdom.

3. You can find most tags in Crusader Kings/config/world_names.csv

 

[Azugal]

I guess that at the end of the day, you're supposed to be crusading for God and Christianity, not for your own benefits (albeit most of the crusaders were doing just this). So giving up two provinces to two Knightly Orders of the Cross should be seen as one of the most religiously right and pious things you could do. If you want to roleplay it, assume that those orders were actually helping you fight to capture Jerusalem and you are rewarding them. They shouldn't have to be your vassals, in such a way that you wouldn't want to make the Pope one of your vassals.

That's just another way of looking at it anyway. Doesn't mean I'm right, just putting a different perspective on things.

 

[Maleficus]

Don't think so, but it is relatively easy

1. Open your save-game with Wordpad/Notepad

2. Search for either TEMP (The Templars) or HOSP (The Hospilaters) untill you see an entry like this

title = { 
    tag = HOSP
    tier = kingdom
    liege = ---- 
    holder = { character = { type = 10 id = 1758 } startdate = { year = 1066 month = january day = 0 } } 
    claim = { id = { type = 4712 id = 34462 } character = { type = 10 id = 1736 } date = { year = 1074 month = march day = 2 } } 
    }

Then change it to this

title = { 
    tag = HOSP
    tier =[COLOR="Lime"] duchy [/COLOR]
    liege = [COLOR="Lime"]XXXX[/COLOR]
    holder = { character = { type = 10 id = 1758 } startdate = { year = 1066 month = january day = 0 } } 
    claim = { id = { type = 4712 id = 34462 } character = { type = 10 id = 1736 } date = { year = 1074 month = march day = 2 } } 
    }

Where XXXX is then the tag of your kingdom.

3. You can find most tags in Crusader Kings/config/world_names.csv

Ah, thanks. That seems straightforward enough

I guess that at the end of the day, you're supposed to be crusading for God and Christianity, not for your own benefits (albeit most of the crusaders were doing just this). So giving up two provinces to two Knightly Orders of the Cross should be seen as one of the most religiously right and pious things you could do. If you want to roleplay it, assume that those orders were actually helping you fight to capture Jerusalem and you are rewarding them. They shouldn't have to be your vassals, in such a way that you wouldn't want to make the Pope one of your vassals.

That's just another way of looking at it anyway. Doesn't mean I'm right, just putting a different perspective on things.

Well yes, I see what you mean, but TBH half of the annoyance isn't so much that they want the land, as what land they want. When the AI has taken Jerusalem, I've seen the knights set up in the rather less desirable provinces, such as Beersheb, Monreal, Baalbek and Safed. This time the Templars are demanding Hebron (Which I might be reluctantly persuaded to give them, as I was thinking of making it a bishopric at some point anyway) while the Hospitalliers have decided they want Acre, which is one of my biggest earners (Just behind Jerusalem and Beirut) so handing it over for free would be a bit of a dick move anyway.

Does anyone know what are the factors which determine what counties they ask for, and anyway this can be influenced in order to convince them to take, say, Monreal or Beersheb instead? (Or even to stop asking until I've gotten around to taking Homs, which I'd gladly let them have if it'd shut them up)

 

[Azugal]

The events are in "templar_events.txt". Somewhere there's a list of province IDs (I think in the modding forum). You could edit those I guess, though from reading them I can't see what influences which province they ask for. Just which provinces trigger the events.

#############################
# Grant Land to the Templars#
#############################
province_event = {
	id = 910

	picture = "event_templars"

	trigger = {
		condition = { type = not value = { type = capital value = yes } }
		condition = {
			type = or
			condition = { type = province value = 780 }
			condition = { type = province value = 779 }
			condition = { type = province value = 776 }
			condition = { type = province value = 775 }
			}
		condition = { type = not value = { type = has_province_effect value = { heretic = yes } } }
		condition = { type = crusade }
		condition = { type = ruler_religion value = catholic }
		condition = { type = ruler_piety value = 0 }
		condition = {
			type = not
			value = {
				type = exists
				value = TEMP
			}
		}
		condition = { type = owner condition = { type = not value = { type = trait value = sceptical } } }
		condition = { type = not value = { type = year value = 1300 } }
	}

	mean_time_to_happen = {
		months = 24
	}

	action_a = {
		ai_chance = 90
		effect = { type = create_tag value = TEMP } 
		effect = { type = add_regiment country = TEMP culture = templar_knight strength = { heavy_cav = 500 heavy_inf = 1000 } }
		effect = { type = ruler_piety value = 25 }
	}
	action_b = {
		ai_chance = 10
		effect = { type = ruler_piety value = -50 }
		effect = { type = random chance = 33
			effect = { type = add_province_effect value = heretic }
		}
	}
}



#################################
# Grant Land to the Hospitalers #
#################################
province_event = {
	id = 911

	picture = "event_templars"

	trigger = {
		condition = { type = not value = { type = capital value = yes } }
		condition = {
			type = or
			condition = { type = province value = 767 }
			condition = { type = province value = 768 }
			condition = { type = province value = 766 }
			condition = { type = province value = 772 }
			}
		condition = { type = not value = { type = has_province_effect value = { heretic = yes } } }
		condition = { type = crusade }
		condition = { type = ruler_religion value = catholic }
		condition = { type = ruler_piety value = 0 }
		condition = {
			type = not
			value = {
				type = exists
				value = HOSP
			}
		}
		condition = { type = owner condition = { type = not value = { type = trait value = sceptical } } }
		condition = { type = not value = { type = year value = 1300 } }
	}

	mean_time_to_happen = {
		months = 22
	}

	action_a = {
		effect = { type = create_tag value = HOSP }
		effect = { type = add_regiment country = HOSP culture = hospitaler_knights strength = { heavy_cav = 500 heavy_inf = 1000 } }
		effect = { type = ruler_piety value = 25 }
		ai_chance = 90
	}
	action_b = {
		ai_chance = 10
		effect = { type = ruler_piety value = -50 }
		effect = { type = random chance = 33
			effect = { type = add_province_effect value = heretic }
		}
	}
}

Actually, from a brief look, you could simply move your capital to Acre and they wouldn't ask for it. If I'm reading that correctly anyway.

 

[Arko]

main problem to me giving them the land is just they survive pretty too few times that kinda upset me

one way to make them stronger may be to give the land ; take the title by war ; create a vassal with some provinces and give him the title of crusader.
In this way you create a crusader state more able to survive
(this only work if you're already a king otherwise you cannot give your primary title away)

 

[Zzzzz...]

I have no problem with giving up lands for the military orders but they're just too weak.

 

[Kordian]

Give 'em the provinces they ask, then send your heir as host in the court of an Order.
As your heir grows up his stats will get better and better while other courtiers of the knight order will usually have bad stats.
Since KO are on Elective Law your heir will easily become the new Grand Master. Watch out for IA events that kill you heir as an underage Grand Master.

When your main character will die your heir will get all your titles + GM title (which counts as a king title) :rofl:

 

[unmerged(133776)]

main problem to me giving them the land is just they survive pretty too few times that kinda upset me

one way to make them stronger may be to give the land ; take the title by war ; create a vassal with some provinces and give him the title of crusader.
In this way you create a crusader state more able to survive
(this only work if you're already a king otherwise you cannot give your primary title away)

Unless my game is just quirky, but I've found that those 'Religious Order' titles aren't claimable. Should they be and it's just my game? Tho the more I think of it, since you aren't allowed to play as those Orders (like Pagan/Muslims), that is why you can't claim them.

 

[Arko]

Unless my game is just quirky, but I've found that those 'Religious Order' titles aren't claimable. Should they be and it's just my game? Tho the more I think of it, since you aren't allowed to play as those Orders (like Pagan/Muslims), that is why you can't claim them.

when at war with them force vassalise and then revoke their title or something like was what I did I think to get the title

force vassalization is possible for titles created by event like these even if it is a king level title

 

[Hawkeye1489]

force vassalization is possible for titles created by event like these even if it is a king level title

That's only good until the first ruler dies or you save the game and reload, whichever happens first.

 

[Kolonel]

Wasn't there a mod that gave these knight orders some "teeth"?

EDIT: ah, looks like that is included in DVIP...

 

[sjones25]

Give 'em the provinces they ask, then send your heir as host in the court of an Order.
As your heir grows up his stats will get better and better while other courtiers of the knight order will usually have bad stats.
Since KO are on Elective Law your heir will easily become the new Grand Master. Watch out for IA events that kill you heir as an underage Grand Master.

When your main character will die your heir will get all your titles + GM title (which counts as a king title) :rofl:

Won't your heir come back to your court as soon as he matures, and therefore be ineligible to become Grand Master; unless the old Grand Master dies while your heir is between 16 and about 10. (Because if he's younger than 10, his stats probably won't be good enough to become GM)

 

[Avalanchemike]

Go Orthodox

 

[sjones25]

Give 'em the provinces they ask, then send your heir as host in the court of an Order.
As your heir grows up his stats will get better and better while other courtiers of the knight order will usually have bad stats.
Since KO are on Elective Law your heir will easily become the new Grand Master. Watch out for IA events that kill you heir as an underage Grand Master.

When your main character will die your heir will get all your titles + GM title (which counts as a king title) :rofl:

I actually tried this, but if you don't have a king title, the GM title becomes your main title and, since you can't play as a KO, the whole game becomes horribly bugged.

Within a few months you get this event that says "God is offended by your very existence" (or something to that effect) and you die. I'm assuming the game designers put that event in there to take away your KO title since it was never supposed to be playable. Since KOs have elective law (and it can't be changed), chances are your heir is not in your dynasty. Game over. (And by "game over" I mean, you're probably now a minor vassal of a huge KO, which is kind of funny, but not too fun to actually play)

 

[Zzzzz...]

I actually tried this, but if you don't have a king title, the GM title becomes your main title and, since you can't play as a KO, the whole game becomes horribly bugged.

but does it work if you already have a king title? I wanna try it when I play Jerusalem sometime.