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Taylor138

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Aug 31, 2016
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I’m beyond excited like I know everyone pretty much is as well, but I would like to bring up the map. I found in CK2 that they map was just too small in the aspect of immersion and number of counties and I’ll explain why. Once you get the hang of CK2 your able to navigate and conquer regions much easier so you basically start to take whole duchies or 3 counties at once sometimes. I’m ok with that, I’m suggesting the approach they went for with Imperator: Rome, but with even more depth. In Imperator if you’ve played it you understand what I mean, playing as Rome for instance you start off with I think 4 or 5 counties and there is just an extreme amount of territory within Italy to conquer and deal with other nations, I believe there’s 7 or 8 nations in the north of Italy and about the same in central Italy and the south as well. What I’m saying is in CK2 if you play as a duke or count in France or Spain for example, once you conquer or inherit a few counties or duchies in those nations you basically control whole sections of the country with relative speed, and at that point there’s only one other route to go and that’s to become king which is all fine if your able to prolong that and make it a more difficult thing to strive for as in having more counties or duchies to expand in without having complete control of southern France in 30 years because there’s only 15 counties.

I’m starting to ramble I apologize, my point of all this is simple. I would like the affect of the Imperator map, if you are zoomed out looking at the entire world map in Imperator it looks large, no doubt about that, but once you zoom in to Rome and Italy it actually feels like your in Italy because the region of Italy is so immense there must be
150 counties there alone and I might be understating it. It brings the possibility in CK3 of actually being totally focused in your region for large parts of the game because of so much area within your country that there would be so many other AI lords and characters to deal with and internal politics to deal with that it would be some time before (if you wanted to) to even have to meddle outside your country for some time. So bottom line is, I pray that CK3 has way more counties within each region of the map so gameplay within your nation has more depth and angles to expand without taking complete control as quickly. And I actually bring this up because of the experience I have playing in Italy in CK2, Italy is the prime example of what I’d like to see fixed in CK3, it just feels like a big island to me, it’s easy to conquer and take complete control quickly because of a lack of counties even as they’ve expanded it, it still is lacking because of how small they drew the land mass from the beginning. I mean the kingdoms of Sicily and Naples were some of the most powerful nations of Europe in the Middle Ages and it’s difficult to show that when you see your land that you control. I think there’s maybe 20 counties under the kingdom of Sicily, not much potential of extreme immersion within your own realm in my opinion. But anyway I tried to explain what I mean but it’s a bit difficult I apologize for the book that will be uploaded Lol
 
I don't know if CK3 will provide more "depth and angles" to gameplay within a realm but I think we can be pretty sure there will be a lot more provinces than in CK2. If each of these provinces represent a county, we don't know yet.
For example, you can compare Denmark in CK3 and CK2. In CK2 Denmark have 14 counties and from what I can estimate from one of the pictures from CK3, Denmark will have roughly 45 counties/provinces. My estimate is maybe a little too high, but I am sure Denmark at least will have double the number of provinces in CK3, which will probably be true for every region of the game.

CK3 Denmark with my guess on number of provinces:
CK3 Denmark.png


CK2 Denmark:
CK2 Denmark.png
 
Well in the other CK3 screenshots, its safe to assume that the Barony/Holding tier is the base level of the tier on the map.
 
Thank you for the pics and details. That looks like a pretty good start to what I’m basically trying to explain. It seems like you understand what I’m trying to say. It’s like tricking your perception with the map like in Imperator, your zoomed out basically above the clouds or even close to the edge of space and you can see half of the worlds land masses and areas and you know it’s big, but then you come back through the clouds (zoom in) and all of a sudden what you thought was big is beyond comprehension as you come back to France, Italy, Denmark etc and there’s basically a map within a map in your own regional area.

which from what you just pointed out above is a good indication that they might go towards what I’m suggestion, I truly hope so. With the tools available to them, CK3 should be a game that brings all of our hopes into reality as far as depth and mechanics and only a hair away from bringing this medieval character game to life.
 
really hope ck3 will stop pointlessly adding ridiculous number of new provinces
but unlikely
Imperator proved that it is better for the gameplay purpose to have more provinces on the map. It's way better to have 20 provinces in Sicily than 3, as with EU4. My only concern is performance but I'd trust PDX on this topic as CK3 is in development for such a long time and it will stay that way probably up to mid 2020
 
Imperator proved that it is better for the gameplay purpose to have more provinces on the map. It's way better to have 20 provinces in Sicily than 3, as with EU4. My only concern is performance but I'd trust PDX on this topic as CK3 is in development for such a long time and it will stay that way probably up to mid 2020
I believe the problem with performance is due to characters, not necessarily with provinces.
Basically, in CK3 you would have far more provinces, but the number of characters should remain similar.
In CK2, Barons and their families were "hidden" away on the map below a province. Now they are simply moved away and shown on the map. Their numbers are still the same, but are now more transparent.

At least, that's my understanding. Could be wrong.

EDIT: And I replied to the wrong comment....
Nevermind.
 
I believe the problem with performance is due to characters, not necessarily with provinces.
Basically, in CK3 you would have far more provinces, but the number of characters should remain similar.
In CK2, Barons and their families were "hidden" away on the map below a province. Now they are simply moved away and shown on the map. Their numbers are still the same, but are now more transparent.

At least, that's my understanding. Could be wrong.

EDIT: And I replied to the wrong comment....
Nevermind.

You are only half-right sir. In CK2 characters on count tier and above, had AI and that was huge burden for performance. You could have the same amount of characters but with more counts you would have worse performance. So it all depends on whether these baron-tier provinces will have AI.
 
I would like to believe that with CK3 everything has changed in regards to how the game will handle everything, I believe we’re still thinking about CK2 when talking about the game possibly having hindered performance due to character and map size. But by the way they have done Imperator with a massive map and characters considering from what they said at PDXCON that Imperator had actually taken things from the development of CK3 I would believe that they have all this in mind and are able to squash performance issues with whatever new engines and tools they are using so I’d assume we should be alright on that front, but that’s my speculation.
 
Imperator proved that it is better for the gameplay purpose to have more provinces on the map. It's way better to have 20 provinces in Sicily than 3, as with EU4. My only concern is performance but I'd trust PDX on this topic as CK3 is in development for such a long time and it will stay that way probably up to mid 2020
20 province sicily may means 20 count level character
why?
if one character hold multiple province
then why 20
 
Are you saying why 20 provinces or why 20 characters to be sure? Because If your saying why 20 provinces then I’d say why not 20 provinces. The more provinces each region has the better. It’s more characters and more areas to conquer or inherit. Without plenty of provinces then there’s not many titles to have and the world feels much smaller as you grow in size. The larger the map the more playing time you’ll have in reality, if Sicily only had 5 provinces and the same for other nations your game wouldn’t last very long.
 
I don't know if CK3 will provide more "depth and angles" to gameplay within a realm but I think we can be pretty sure there will be a lot more provinces than in CK2. If each of these provinces represent a county, we don't know yet.
For example, you can compare Denmark in CK3 and CK2. In CK2 Denmark have 14 counties and from what I can estimate from one of the pictures from CK3, Denmark will have roughly 45 counties/provinces. My estimate is maybe a little too high, but I am sure Denmark at least will have double the number of provinces in CK3, which will probably be true for every region of the game.

CK3 Denmark with my guess on number of provinces:
View attachment 519660

CK2 Denmark:
View attachment 519659

In SWMH Denmark has 21 provinces (not counting Holstein and Wagrien, which would put it to 26). IMHO 45 counties seems a bit excessive, most likely 45 also includes the on map baronies. Perhaps (and IMHO hopefully) Denmark, and other regions, in CK III will be a bit more detailed, than in CK II though.
 
The problem with it being baronies is that there are too few to be baronies. 45 baronies for 14 counties means 3 holding counties. And it wouldn't work well on "Crowded" provinces like Venice or Constantinople. Province of Hagia Sofia Barony, would have to be very very small.
 
None of us truly know the setup of provinces as of yet, I’m just happy to see plenty of space to inherit or conquer, plenty of routes and options to choose from. I don’t know about everyone else but I rather like being able to take several provinces in a nation and hardly put a dent in it, allows for much more competitive gameplay against the AI.
 
The problem with it being baronies is that there are too few to be baronies. 45 baronies for 14 counties means 3 holding counties. And it wouldn't work well on "Crowded" provinces like Venice or Constantinople. Province of Hagia Sofia Barony, would have to be very very small.

I think with the 'development' mechanic they should hopefully be able to have places like Venice and Constantinople be important and weighty without just cramming more baronies on there, so instead of splitting up Constantinople into 'different' cities it can be one immensely powerful one